Anyone do a cat converter replacement DIY on late model

[Mickey]

Was wondering if anyone out there has done their own cat replacement?
If so, where did you purchase the converter and what did you pay.
Did you have any problem with fit or parts house?

I tried this back in Feb and due to mfg/design problem the converted
didn't fit as the O2 sensor was hitting the front driveline. Have
been fighting with AutoPartsWarehouse since then to get my money back.
Was just informed yesterday they are crediting my bank account with
full refund.

Do need to replace the converter but don't want to find myself in same
situation. APW had a "we walk on water" rating at BizRate but found
some postings from Epinion last week that were all negative.

2000 OBW

Mickey

 

[Rick Courtright]

Was wondering if anyone out there has done their own cat replacement?
If so, where did you purchase the converter and what did you pay.
Did you have any problem with fit or parts house?

Hi,

How to minimize problems: go to your Subaru dealer and buy the proper
cat. Screw the cost. Go home, put it in, and drive off happy!

Sounds simplistic, no? Well... my Subie dealer tells me aftermarket
parts are almost guaranteed NOT to fit Subies. My experience tells me
he's right!

Other OEM items I recommend: t-belts, water pumps, complete axles and CV
joint boots if simply doing maintenance on the axles. My "aggravation
level" has been considerably lowered since adopting these theories! And
the additional "cost" of purchasing from the dealer has often, if not
usually, been offset by not having to go back and forth numerous times
to get a part that fits. Or my money back. Grrr...

Rick

 

[Jim Stewart]

Hi,

How to minimize problems: go to your Subaru dealer and buy the proper
cat. Screw the cost. Go home, put it in, and drive off happy!

Sounds simplistic, no? Well... my Subie dealer tells me aftermarket
parts are almost guaranteed NOT to fit Subies. My experience tells me
he's right!

Other OEM items I recommend: t-belts, water pumps, complete axles and CV
joint boots if simply doing maintenance on the axles. My "aggravation
level" has been considerably lowered since adopting these theories! And
the additional "cost" of purchasing from the dealer has often, if not
usually, been offset by not having to go back and forth numerous times
to get a part that fits. Or my money back. Grrr...

What he said and add brake pads and oil filters.

 

[Joe Kultgen]

Other OEM items I recommend: t-belts, water pumps, complete axles and
CV

What he said and add brake pads and oil filters.

A while back I was talking with an guy in charge of fleet maintenance
for a large cab company. Most of the vehicles he was responsible for
ran up huge mileage while city driving. He had a couple of opinions and
years of maintenance logs to back them up.

Number one was, "CHANGE THE FREAKIN' OIL!!!" It doesn't have to be
expensive oil as long as it meets the API rating the car manufacturer
calls for. Forget the "normal" change intervals. Go with the rough
service interval and use whichever is shorter, time or miles.

The other was "don't shave nickles on consumables". OEM is generally
the way to go for filters, brake pads, exhaust systems and sensors. You
can buy cheaper parts, you can buy better parts, but on consumables it
is really rare to find a better quality part for less money.

He also told me that the single best thing I could do to improve the
lifespan of a new cars engine is install a pre-lube system. The main
reason they get so many miles from a vehicle is that, except for
fueling and maintenance, they never shut them off. Most of the bearings
in an engine are designed to operate with a supply of oil delivered
under pressure. They last almost indefinitely as long as they have that
oil. Using a pre-lube system to deliver that oil at startup can easily
double the life of your engine.

later,
Joe

 

[CompUser]

What he said and add brake pads and oil filters.

Not for Impreza oil filters, tho...they've gone
back and forth on what's right, what's wrong, and
every "improved" issue this year has leaked.
Stick with Champion Labs.

 

[Bonehenge]

A while back I was talking with an guy in charge of fleet maintenance
for a large cab company. Most of the vehicles he was responsible for
ran up huge mileage while city driving. He had a couple of opinions and
years of maintenance logs to back them up.

Number one was, "CHANGE THE FREAKIN' OIL!!!"

The other was "don't shave nickles on consumables". OEM is generally
the way to go for filters, brake pads, exhaust systems and sensors.

I'm with you so far, even my favorite indie shop prefers OEM parts.

He also told me that the single best thing I could do to improve the
lifespan of a new cars engine is install a pre-lube system.

Old-school, outdated, J.C. Whitney catalog info. <G>

The whole pre-lube idea came around with straight weight oil and
aviation engines. Heck, if they do it on an airplane, it's got to be
good. STP even puts "jet fuel" in STP Fuel Treatment!

Large airplane engines often use(d) straight weight 50, 70, and even
100 weight oil. Oil weights change with seasons in airplanes. This
oil is measured in many gallons, barely flows at startup, and takes a
while to warm up due to massive oil coolers with large amounts of air
being directed over them. Add those thoughts to the sheer distances
the oil needs to travel on a larger engine, and prerolling starts to
make sense. Remember, most of these engines are also air cooled, so
they can depend on devices such as thermostats to help speed the time
to normal operating temperature.

The truth is, a pre-lube system a.) will probably void your warranty,
and b.) is totally unnecessary with today's almost instantly flowing,
synthetic multi-viscosity lubricants, check valve equipped engines,
short oil paths, etc...

My own small airplane is equipped with a Lycoming IO-360 that when
filled with AeroShell synthetic 20w-50, gets almost instant oil
pressure (we have mechanical gauges, this isn't a guess <G>), anytime
during the year in New England. I know old pilots who still don't
trust "new fangled" synthetic multi-viscosity oils, even though the
engineers at the power plant manufacturers embraced them years ago,
and still scramble to have the proper oil installed at season changes!

If pre-lubing was such a great idea (proven by actual engineers) on a
typical car engine, I'd bet that the better manufacturers would at
least offer it as an option on fleet, police, etc.. car and light
truck builds. Want rough service? Think ambulance! Start, drive
hard for a few miles, park, cool down, repeat... The aftermarket
ambulance fitters don't bother with prelubing, as a cost / benefit
gain isn't there, and there's always the chassis manufacturer's
warranty...

 

[Joe Kultgen]

The truth is, a pre-lube system a.) will probably void your warranty,
and b.) is totally unnecessary with today's almost instantly flowing,
synthetic multi-viscosity lubricants, check valve equipped engines,
short oil paths, etc...

My own small airplane is equipped with a Lycoming IO-360 that when
filled with AeroShell synthetic 20w-50, gets almost instant oil
pressure (we have mechanical gauges, this isn't a guess <G>), anytime
during the year in New England. I know old pilots who still don't
trust "new fangled" synthetic multi-viscosity oils, even though the
engineers at the power plant manufacturers embraced them years ago,
and still scramble to have the proper oil installed at season changes!

If pre-lubing was such a great idea (proven by actual engineers) on a
typical car engine, I'd bet that the better manufacturers would at
least offer it as an option on fleet, police, etc.. car and light
truck builds. Want rough service? Think ambulance! Start, drive
hard for a few miles, park, cool down, repeat... The aftermarket
ambulance fitters don't bother with prelubing, as a cost / benefit
gain isn't there, and there's always the chassis manufacturer's
warranty...

You make some good points. There have been radical advances in
lubrication technology over the past twenty years. Also, horizontal
opposed engines like the O series of aircraft powerplants, (and most
Subarus!), have fairly short lubrication paths compared to large V or
inline engines.

What you left out is that light aircraft engines have performance and
maintenance standards an automobile owner would never tolerate. The IO-
360 is a fuel injected, horizontal opposed, four cylinder of 360 cubic
inch displacement. The early models were rated at 180 HP and had a TBO,
(time between overhauls) as short as 1200 hours. Newer models are around
200 HP and 2000 hours. Oil consumption of a quart every ten hours is
still in the "normal" range and may reach one quart per hour before the
engine is pulled from service.

Keep in mind that oil presure gauges normally tap either the main gallery
near the pump or between the pump and spin on filter. Presure at the
gauge does NOT mean there is significant quantities of oil arriving at
critical points in the engine. Anyone who's driven an older car with
leaky hydraulic lifters has had audible evidence of this. Although I'll
admit that's an extreme example.

Fleet vehicles are the worst candidates for a pre-lube system because
they generally have the least number of "dry starts" for the miles
logged. Some large trucks run for days at a stretch without being shut
off. Even a squad car that spends most of its time parked at the donut
shop gets more run time that the average commuter cruiser.

Actually pre-lube systems are quite common in some applications. Diesel
engines have high bearing loads due to their compresson ignition and
suffer much greater wear during dry starts. They also have turbo
chargers that are some distance from the oil pump and are more sensitive
to lack of lubrication. Large emergency generators often have pre-lube
pumps that are run on a regular schedule. Sometimes the lube pump will
go through daily cycles while the engine will start less frequently.

Why don't auto makers offer them as an option? Because it's not in their
best interests to do so. A car is like any other piece of machinery. It
has a normal service life. A successful auto maker will try to match
components so the majority of them reach the end of their service life
concurently. An extra $50 per unit is a lot of money on a long
production run. It's worth it if you're upgrading a component to match
the service life of the whole assembly. Cars that become known for
premature failure of one component don't sell well and affect the owners
choice of which make to buy new. Doubling the life of the engine while
leaving the rest of the car alone is a financial "non-starter".
Aftermarket suppliers fill the need for those people want the units
anyway.

An average car being driven the average number of miles on a regular
schedule will probably get little or no benifit from a pre-lube pump. By
the time the engine wears out the rest of the vehicle is trash anyway.
In the case of a secondary vehicle that gets driven on an intermitant
basis, a pre-lube system can pay for itself many times over the life of
the vehicle.

Later,
Joe

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

You make some good points. There have been radical advances in
lubrication technology over the past twenty years. Also, horizontal
opposed engines like the O series of aircraft powerplants, (and most
Subarus!), have fairly short lubrication paths compared to large V or
inline engines.

What you left out is that light aircraft engines have performance and
maintenance standards an automobile owner would never tolerate. The IO-
360 is a fuel injected, horizontal opposed, four cylinder of 360 cubic
inch displacement. The early models were rated at 180 HP and had a TBO,
(time between overhauls) as short as 1200 hours. Newer models are around
200 HP and 2000 hours. Oil consumption of a quart every ten hours is
still in the "normal" range and may reach one quart per hour before the
engine is pulled from service.

Keep in mind that oil presure gauges normally tap either the main gallery
near the pump or between the pump and spin on filter. Presure at the
gauge does NOT mean there is significant quantities of oil arriving at
critical points in the engine. Anyone who's driven an older car with
leaky hydraulic lifters has had audible evidence of this. Although I'll
admit that's an extreme example.

Fleet vehicles are the worst candidates for a pre-lube system because
they generally have the least number of "dry starts" for the miles
logged. Some large trucks run for days at a stretch without being shut
off. Even a squad car that spends most of its time parked at the donut
shop gets more run time that the average commuter cruiser.

Actually pre-lube systems are quite common in some applications. Diesel
engines have high bearing loads due to their compresson ignition and
suffer much greater wear during dry starts. They also have turbo
chargers that are some distance from the oil pump and are more sensitive
to lack of lubrication. Large emergency generators often have pre-lube
pumps that are run on a regular schedule. Sometimes the lube pump will
go through daily cycles while the engine will start less frequently.

Why don't auto makers offer them as an option? Because it's not in their
best interests to do so. A car is like any other piece of machinery. It
has a normal service life. A successful auto maker will try to match
components so the majority of them reach the end of their service life
concurently. An extra $50 per unit is a lot of money on a long
production run. It's worth it if you're upgrading a component to match
the service life of the whole assembly. Cars that become known for
premature failure of one component don't sell well and affect the owners
choice of which make to buy new. Doubling the life of the engine while
leaving the rest of the car alone is a financial "non-starter".
Aftermarket suppliers fill the need for those people want the units
anyway.

An average car being driven the average number of miles on a regular
schedule will probably get little or no benifit from a pre-lube pump. By
the time the engine wears out the rest of the vehicle is trash anyway.
In the case of a secondary vehicle that gets driven on an intermitant
basis, a pre-lube system can pay for itself many times over the life of
the vehicle.

Later,
Joe

Excellent post!
thanx

Carl

 

[Bonehenge]

Large emergency generators often have pre-lube
pumps that are run on a regular schedule. Sometimes the lube pump will
go through daily cycles while the engine will start less frequently.

FWIW, I work for a company with 100's of large (mostly 300-500 KW, and
even some 2 MW) stationary generators. One of the power plants has
(14) 450 KW Detroits, that are added or dropped as needed. They're
kept warm, but none are prelubed, other than possibly a slightly long
crank cycle before the fuel is injected. They are routinely run
weekly for an hour. Many are 25+ years old, with little major engine
work.

Why don't auto makers offer them as an option? Because it's not in their
best interests to do so. A car is like any other piece of machinery. It
has a normal service life. A successful auto maker will try to match
components so the majority of them reach the end of their service life
concurently.

I agree with that. But remember, cars aren't usually replaced with
NEW cars because they're worn out. New cars are most often replaced
by folks who want a different vehicle because they have different
needs, they're bored of the current car, or they need to roll a lease.
A typical 3-4 year old car with 45-60k is just broken in, far from
worn out, and usually in excellent mechanical shape. Once upon a
time, a 4 year old car was pretty beat.

Typical folks who replace cars that are totally shot are either not in
a position to buy a new car, or choose to drive 'em to the grave.
Manufacturers can care less about folks who junk 10 year old cars to
replace it with a 4 year old car.

Trucks, ambulances, heavy equipment, etc. ARE re-engined at times.

An average car being driven the average number of miles on a regular
schedule will probably get little or no benifit from a pre-lube pump. By
the time the engine wears out the rest of the vehicle is trash anyway.
In the case of a secondary vehicle that gets driven on an intermitant
basis, a pre-lube system can pay for itself many times over the life of
the vehicle.

What about the warranty?

I had a brand new '96 Nissan King Cab with a difficult oil filter
location. Unless it was on a lift changing the filter was a PITA. I
wanted to remotely mount the filter, using braided lines, and of
course add more oil to make up for the increased capacity. I was told
in writing that I would clearly violate the engine warranty coverage
by modifying the oil system.

On the other hand, my current Toyota is throttle-by-wire, so it seems
that the ECU could simply be programmed to crank longer before it
lights off.