02/03 Impreza headlights hazing up ... PLEASE read

[Vernacular? That's a derby!]

I COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE DR. R.F. !!!

MY SISTER BOUGHT HER FIRST SUBARU IN 2002
AND IT HAS BEEN A COMPLETE AND UTTER DISSAPOINTMENT.

5 OF THE DEFECT ITEMS YOU DETAILED BELOW
SHE HAS EXPERIENCED ALREADY AND HER DEALER
SERVICE AND SUBARU OF AMERICA HAVE BE
ABSOLUTLEY NO HELP OR SUPPORT WHATSOEVER
AND WANT TO CHARGE HER MORE MONEY TO FIX
CLAIMING THEY ARE NOT WARRANTY ITEMS.

YOU ARE 100% CORRECT AND DON'T LET NOBODY
TELL YOU OTHERWISE....SUBARU BUILDS SHIT CARS
THAT ARE WORSE MADE THAN THE UTTER GARBAGE
THAT GENERAL MOTORS BUILT IN THE 1970'S.

ANYONE READING THIS WHO IS CONTENPLATING BUYING
A SUBARU, PLEASE SAVE YOURSELF MUCH TROUBLE AND
GO BUY A TOYOTA OR A HONDA INSTEAD!

SUBARU AND PARENT CO. FUJI HEAVY INDUSTRIES BUILDS AND
DESIGNS GARBAGE THROW-AWAY CARS AND ALWAYS
WILL BE GARBAGE CARS THAT ARE UTTER JUNK. CONSUMER
REPORTS IS LYING THRU THEIR TEETH IN THEIR RELIBALITY
REPORTS ALSO WHEN IT COMES TO SUBARU.

FINALLY THEIR USA HEADQUARTERS IN *CHERRY HILL, NJ*
IS STAFFED WITH BAD-MANNERED IDIOTS AND DOLTS WHO'S JOB IS
TO SELL/SHILL YOU CARS AND AFTER YOU BUY THEM THEY GIVE
NO HELP AND STICK YOU UP-THE-ASSHOLE WITH EMPTY
PROMISES OF HELP AND TERRIBLE CUSTOMER SERVICE.

SUBARU AND PARENT COMPANY FUJI HEAVY INDUSTRIES IS THE
100% WORST JAPANESE AUTO COMPANY ON EARTH! ****

 

[Rick Courtright]

The right stuff to use for the longest lens life is about $22 (not
unmanageable) but the lenses won't last indefinitely if polished often enough

And what is the "right stuff?" Take a look at the van in this guy's pix:
http://www.properautocare.com/polplasheadl.html

He goes thru a rather extensive process with his $35 kit of polishing
pads, etc. The lenses on my Toyota were worse than his van when I got
it. I'd used Meguiar's Mirror Glaze (the plexiglass/plastic convertible
top window "classic") but it didn't do the trick. I took white polishing
compound to one side, and it came out pretty good, but was a ton of
work. Then the guy at the auto parts store recommended Meguiar's Plastx.
What the heck--it can't hurt. In less than 15 minutes of gentle rubbing
(like waxing the paint) the other lens looked better than the one I'd
worked so hard on. By comparison, both are at least as good as this
fellow's pictures of his Nissan after what seems like more work than
most of us would do.

Now, these are the fluted polycarbonate lenses that have been replaced
with the "bug eyes," but the point is it doesn't take a lot of work to
keep things in good shape, while it does take a lot more to undo neglect
or damage caused by time. If I read your post correctly, you first
became aware of the "problem" at 1500 miles, when you were told to
polish the covers, and you now have 34k miles. Is that correct? If so,
HAVE you been polishing the lens covers? And if so, are they maintaining
their level of "degradation" or getting worse? I agree you can't keep
polishing them forever before they're gone, but by then, maybe there
will be some in the junk yards for far less than the dealer wants for
them.

Now, since this thread started, I've been looking for bug-eyed Subies,
and haven't seen any with the damage you describe. Yet. Which raises a
question in my mind: have you identified any possible environmental
influences in your area (or even in your maintenance regime, like using
Windex on plastic? The ammonia plays hard on some plastics) that could
be damaging the plastic? In my area of SoCal, it's hot a lot (over 100
deg F for a fair amount of the year), we have a steady stream of gravel
trucks on several major commuter freeways, and frequent winds with
attendant sandstorms. There are certain types of identifiable damage
from these factors. My plastic parts dry out, my glass (and some paint)
are blasted. Most commuters I know locally have lost track of the number
of windshields and glass headlights (the few that still have 'em)
they've replaced. My buddy, OTOH, parks his vehicle near LAX during the
day and outside near the beach at night, and it suffers a completely
different type of damage, chemically induced from jet fuel and salt air.
His glass looks perfect, his plastic's not dried, cracked or discolored,
but his paint looks like the devil in just a coupla years. And then
there's his wife's Toyota, nearly the same age as mine, that's garaged
at night and lives in a covered parking garage during the day. It
suffers none of the damage either her husband's or my vehicles suffer.
Using your theory of proper materials, he could argue his paint's
defective, I could argue my plastic parts are defective, and his wife
could argue the materials used in her car are just right.

Now what if she were the rep investigating a warranty claim from either
of us? See the problem?

Best of luck with any contact with either Subaru or the Feds!

Rick

 

[Steve]

And what is the "right stuff?"

Meguiar's specifically recommended #10 and #17 which is a cleaner and a polish.
They also said that there is a finite number of times you can do this as each
clean and polish removes the surface of the plastic.

If I read your post correctly, you first became aware of the "problem" at 1500

miles, when you were told >to > polish the covers, and you now have 34k miles.
Is that correct? If so, HAVE you been polishing the lens >covers?

No I have not. Pursuing satisfaction from Subaru I didn't want them to deny
coverage based on doing a non-authorized repair to the headlight lenses. When
the dealer told me to polish the lenses I told them to do it under warranty and
they refused as it was a non Subaru authorized procedure.

Now, since this thread started, I've been looking for bug-eyed Subies, and

haven't seen any with the >damage you describe. Yet. Which raises a question in
my mind: have you identified any possible >environmental influences in your
area

Feedback I'm getting from Sube owners all over the US confirms the same problem
to some degree. Altitude, humidity, mileage or temperature doesn't seem to
matter. All seem to start showing haze at around a year. Hand washing, car
washing, no washing seems to have no effect one way or the other. In a garage
or outside seems to matter. Sure, the snow states cars have gravel pits in the
lenses but that is NOT the problem I'm talking about.

Looking at the lens under magnification doesn't seem to bear out atmosphere
abrasion (gravel/stones) as it is a uniform haze. The regional Subaru rep is
well aware of the problem and Subaru has specifically EXCLUDED lenses from any
of their extended warranties. They know they have a problem and offer no
solution.

Best of luck with any contact with either Subaru or the Feds!

I guess the old adage that "you can be part of the problem or part of the
solution still rings true.

Thanks for your support.

 

[Henry Paul]

Um, first of all those of us reading this post ALREADY own a Subaru. Second
you are wasting your time complaining about reliability in a group with cars
that have easily passed 200, 300, and 400 thousand miles and are still
running strong.

 

[Steve]

In a garage or outside seems to matter.

That's WRONG. I mis-typed.

In a garage or outside DOES NOT seem to matter.

 

[Alan]

I COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE DR. R.F. !!!

MY SISTER BOUGHT HER FIRST SUBARU IN 2002
AND IT HAS BEEN A COMPLETE AND UTTER DISSAPOINTMENT.

5 OF THE DEFECT ITEMS YOU DETAILED BELOW
SHE HAS EXPERIENCED ALREADY AND HER DEALER
SERVICE AND SUBARU OF AMERICA HAVE BE
ABSOLUTLEY NO HELP OR SUPPORT WHATSOEVER
AND WANT TO CHARGE HER MORE MONEY TO FIX
CLAIMING THEY ARE NOT WARRANTY ITEMS.

YOU ARE 100% CORRECT AND DON'T LET NOBODY
TELL YOU OTHERWISE....SUBARU BUILDS SHIT CARS
THAT ARE WORSE MADE THAN THE UTTER GARBAGE
THAT GENERAL MOTORS BUILT IN THE 1970'S.

ANYONE READING THIS WHO IS CONTENPLATING BUYING
A SUBARU, PLEASE SAVE YOURSELF MUCH TROUBLE AND
GO BUY A TOYOTA OR A HONDA INSTEAD!

SUBARU AND PARENT CO. FUJI HEAVY INDUSTRIES BUILDS AND
DESIGNS GARBAGE THROW-AWAY CARS AND ALWAYS
WILL BE GARBAGE CARS THAT ARE UTTER JUNK. CONSUMER
REPORTS IS LYING THRU THEIR TEETH IN THEIR RELIBALITY
REPORTS ALSO WHEN IT COMES TO SUBARU.

FINALLY THEIR USA HEADQUARTERS IN *CHERRY HILL, NJ*
IS STAFFED WITH BAD-MANNERED IDIOTS AND DOLTS WHO'S JOB IS
TO SELL/SHILL YOU CARS AND AFTER YOU BUY THEM THEY GIVE
NO HELP AND STICK YOU UP-THE-ASSHOLE WITH EMPTY
PROMISES OF HELP AND TERRIBLE CUSTOMER SERVICE.

SUBARU AND PARENT COMPANY FUJI HEAVY INDUSTRIES IS THE
100% WORST JAPANESE AUTO COMPANY ON EARTH! ****

I don't know what "Subaru odf America" company you are talking about, but
the one I deal with replaced the radio (6 CD changer included) in my '04 OBW
because of intermittent power-on problems (twice in 18,000 miles). The
dealer couldn't replicate it- but no problem - they took my word for it, and
SOA authorized a new radio.

I think it helps to be polite and reasonable when you call and not sound
LIKE A RAVING LUNATIC. Oh, yes, they also picked up the cost of a rental car
for me for the day I had to leave it in the shop to get the problem
diagnosed. I simply asked if they would do that. Nicely.

 

[Vernacular? That's a derby!]

Really now Paul...? I found great amusement after reading your amazing
reply : )

(You wouldn't happen to be a devotee of the Church of $cientology
would you..? Indeed, I have noticed an almost cult-like following
among some Subaru/FHI owners. They remind me alot of
the Unification Church zombies and the $cientologists with their tables
on the sidewalks in the city trying to fetch 'engrams' and $$$ from abject
suckers and fooles, much like the average salespeople at your local
Subaru Dealership.....grin hint-hint know-what-I-mean, nudge-nudge..)

Paul, you show me verifiable proof of a Subaru, and I mean ANY
Subaru or Fuji Heavy Industries product, that has 200K (or more??!)
on the Odometer, that is not falling apart at the seams and blowing MUCH
blue oil smoke and barely passes USA new emissions testing, and I'll buy
you a bag of NYC's finest Brooklyn baked bagles and have them
sent to you via Fed-Ex.

Subaru cars are designed very badly from a classic
mechanical engineering standpoint. FHI copied the
classic Volkswagen Beetle engine, made it much
bigger and raised the cylinder compression to a very
high level. As a result their engines run *very hot* and
is well known by almost every mechanic and service
shop that a Subaru/FHI car which has 50K miles or
more on it will be a "driveway dripper". (taking into
consideration the poor Japanese-made gaskets that
they use which are made of pressed paperboard and
cheap recycled polymers) Bottom line is that every
H-O'ppsd Subie Engine is a ticking time bomb on the
verge of either exploding in an oil-shower bath when
the gaskets finally blowout, or pistons seize into place
like when a NFL Linebacker slides across dry astroturf
to a halt with friction burns on his a--!

Also to be considered is Subaru/FHI's Horizontally Opposed
Cylinder design in which the same are placed exactly 180° apart
from each other, albeit staggeed. Because the cylinders are in
the *same flat plane* as the roadway, gravity will cause oil to pool
and remain in the bottom of the same. After the engine is shut off
and still hot, any oil remaining in the cylinder COOKS to a BOIL
in the bottom of the same instead of draining back into the oil pan!

The result is when the car is re-started, a strip of TAR LIKE BURNT
OIL is rubbed into the bottom cylinder walls, piston rings and crud
is shoved up against the cylinder head. Over time this creates a score in
the same and drastically shortened engine life. Ever wonder what that *oil
like* SMELL
is when you start up your Subaru in the morning cold?? It's the BURNT OIL
that is
left in the cylinders, having being cooked and now *scored* into the
cylinder walls and burnt off via combustion! (Hint: if you want to get
100K (?) out of
a Subie, you had better be using 100% Synthetic Hi-Temp oil 5W-30 weight!)

I could go on but you get it idea. Subaru FHI cars are fit only for
use in Nintendo Video Games like Super Mario 5. (Mario drives a
Subaru in Virtual Reality you know) In REAL LIFE, if you want a car that
is built well and DESIGNED PROPERLY FROM AN ENGINEERING
STANDPOINT, buy yourself a Honda or a Toyota instead of a
Subaru/FHI Product.

Their cars are fit ONLY for use in Video Games and driven by the
moe-rons 'merkins who are stupid enough to pay big $$$$ for
these horrid yuppie-like station wagon type cars.

Subaru/FHI should be put among the forgetable cars of history.
The Subaru Outback, Baja, Impreza and the rest are 8Japan's answer*
to the Yugoslavian Yugo, the USA's Chevy Vega, the Fiat Strada, the East
German Trabant and several other examples of automotive history that
is not even worth recycling the raw materials into new cars from.
The world would be a better place if Subaru/Fuji Heavy Industries
recalled every one of their horrid, unreliable, poorly built and designed
goofy station wagons, dumped them into the ocean off the coast
of NJ or NC for use as artificial reefs for endangered marine life
right alongside the old NYC LIRR cars at present.

In closing, if you want a good laugh, go to the FHI Corporate Site
http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/corp/outline/index.html
and read the .PDF file called "The Fuji Dynamic Revolution"

Here: http://www.fhi.co.jp/fina/english/vision/index.html

----------------------------------------------------------
(FHI) QUALITY POLICY (Established in November 1994)

"FHI considers customer satisfaction as the first
priority, and will work constantly to improve products
and services to provide world-class quality"
----------------------------------------------------------

BAAAAAAAAA....HA HA HA HA HA HA......
WHAT A LOAD OF KEERRRAPPPPPP !!!!!

Instead of making cars, Subaru/FHI should be >writing speeches<
for George W Bush, John Kerry and other slippery-type US politicians.
Truly the FDR-1 document has got to be the *greatest load of utter BS
that I've read since I got my Annual Financial Report of Halliburton Corp
in the mail !

Oy-Vey Jeeze Louise cut-me-a-break!

--------- end -----------

Someone get me a nice bagel with cream cheese and
a copy of the Wall Street Journal. I need a writers
break and a visit from my crazy brother in law about now. ; ) ; )

---------------------------------

 

[Hallraker]

I don't know what "Subaru odf America" company you are talking about, but
the one I deal with replaced the radio (6 CD changer included) in my '04 OBW
because of intermittent power-on problems (twice in 18,000 miles). The
dealer couldn't replicate it- but no problem - they took my word for it, and
SOA authorized a new radio.

I think it helps to be polite and reasonable when you call and not sound
LIKE A RAVING LUNATIC. Oh, yes, they also picked up the cost of a rental car
for me for the day I had to leave it in the shop to get the problem
diagnosed. I simply asked if they would do that. Nicely.

Don't worry. I think we've just got a couple new trolls is all. Sort of
inevitable I suppose, what with the popularity of the WRX. Five years ago
when I began looking at Subaru and would bring them up in conversations,
people would respond with "Subar...who?" or something along those lines.
Nowadays when I tell someone I drive a Subaru, I immediately get asked
"Really? Isn't that the really fast blue car with the big scoop on the
hood?" Mild to moderate disappointment follows when I explain that Subaru
builds less intense cars as well, and mine is nothing more than a "first"
Outback. An auto industry milestone as the first "crossover" vehicle, but
nothing more exciting than that.

-Matt

 

[Hallraker]

At around 1500 miles I noticed the headlight lenses showing a light "fog" on
the OUTSIDE. As time went by it became more noticeable. Mentioned it to the
dealer who said "not under warranty" and told me to buy plastic polish and
clean the lenses.

Sorry to hear about your lights. I've never seen that on such a new car,
from anyone - even General Motors. Perhaps you've driven through something
that damaged the plastic? Just an idea.

At 169,000 miles, the headlights on my Outback are the best of any vehicle
I've ever been in. One of them is original, one was replaced due to a crash
about 4 years ago. The original one is starting to show signs of yellowing
due to age, but both headlights still project a true and brilliant beam no
matter the outside conditions.

-Matt

 

[Rick Courtright]

Really now Paul...? I found great amusement after reading your amazing
reply : )

It's so good to know we can bring joy to the life of a cross-posting
troll. Hope you guys in all the other groups enjoy this character, too.

BTW, Troll, if I liked bagels I'd argue the 355,261 miles on my Subie's
original engine, that just passed California (toughest in the nation)
smog check last month, might help disprove your tirades. But I don't
care for bagels. Or arguing with idiots.

Rick

 

[Cam Penner]

@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>, hallraker79
@nospam.hotmail.com says...

builds less intense cars as well, and mine is nothing more than a "first"
Outback. An auto industry milestone as the first "crossover" vehicle, but
nothing more exciting than that.

I thought the AMC Eagle preceded it as a crossover?

 

[Steve]

Sorry to hear about your lights. I've never seen that on such a new car,
from anyone - even General Motors. Perhaps you've driven through something
that damaged the plastic? Just an idea.

Yup, me and everyone else who has a bug-eye Impreza/WRX that has this problem
all drove through a cloud of "headlight lens killer". Subaru owner's aren't as
stupid as
Subaru thinks we are.

At 169,000 miles, the headlights on my Outback are the best of any vehicle
I've ever been in. One of them is original, one was replaced due to a crash
about 4 years ago. The original one is starting to show signs of yellowing
due to age, but both headlights still project a true and brilliant beam no
matter the outside conditions.

Outback's don't have the same headlight lens configuration as the bug-eye
Impreza.
Curiously though, the 04/05 Impreza/WRX has a different shaped headlight
assembly
than the 02/03 bug-eye but the same plastic material for the lens. I saw an 04
that was
about a year old and it was starting to haze.

Yellowing due to age at 170k miles would be fine with me.
Hazing over at 1500 miles is not acceptable.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Yup, me and everyone else who has a bug-eye Impreza/WRX that has this problem
all drove through a cloud of "headlight lens killer". Subaru owner's aren't as

Steve,

Continuing our previous note on environmental causes, this may sound a
bit silly, but I wonder if Subaru uses some kind of a coating on the
plastic (like those used on eyeglass lenses) that's coming off, exposing
a "different" kind of material underneath?

I took a look at Meguiar's site to see about the cleaner/polishes you
mentioned and didn't find them for clear plastic care (but my browser
was being grumpy, too.) One thing I did note was the description on the
bottle of the Plastx I mentioned before that says it contains "highly
water resistant polymers" to "provide long lasting durable protection."
The label also says it contains "vital conditioning oils" which "restore
optical clarity to clear plastics." Kinda sounds like a combo of an
Armor-All type product and a wax? Nothing's said about UV, though.

Now we all know the copywriters can go a bit overboard on some of their
claims. Though I've never known Meguiar's to sell snake oil, these
claims are what made me wonder about the coating idea. ?????

Rick

 

[Fuzzy Logic]

Yup, me and everyone else who has a bug-eye Impreza/WRX that has this
problem all drove through a cloud of "headlight lens killer". Subaru
owner's aren't as stupid as
Subaru thinks we are.


Outback's don't have the same headlight lens configuration as the
bug-eye Impreza.
Curiously though, the 04/05 Impreza/WRX has a different shaped headlight
assembly
than the 02/03 bug-eye but the same plastic material for the lens. I saw
an 04 that was
about a year old and it was starting to haze.

Yellowing due to age at 170k miles would be fine with me.
Hazing over at 1500 miles is not acceptable.

I have an '03 Impreza (non-WRX) with the bug eye lens and as far as I can
tell there is no hazing on them?

 

[Steve]

Continuing our previous note on environmental causes, this may sound a
bit silly, but I wonder if Subaru uses some kind of a coating on the
plastic (like those used on eyeglass lenses) that's coming off, exposing
a "different" kind of material underneath?

It may well be a "coating" problem or it may be the plastic itself. Regardless
it is Subaru's responsibility to provide parts that perform properly during
their service life. No more and no less.

I took a look at Meguiar's site to see about the cleaner/polishes you
mentioned and didn't find them for clear plastic care (but my browser
was being grumpy, too.) One thing I did note was the description on the
bottle of the Plastx I mentioned before that says it contains "highly
water resistant polymers" to "provide long lasting durable protection."
The label also says it contains "vital conditioning oils" which "restore
optical clarity to clear plastics." Kinda sounds like a combo of an
Armor-All type product and a wax? Nothing's said about UV, though.

Meguiar's tech rep specified MPLAS03 cleaner & polish kit for $21.95 at:

http://www.meguiars.com/collections/index.cfm?CID=285

I think it's in the professional line. The rep said the all in one bottle was
not as good.

 

[Steve n Holly]

You know

While I do not know details I do know of a few Subies with >100K miles on
them, although I am not up on their repair history.

You spend a while bashing the boxer engine--I might point out that a small
German firm has done ok with the boxer--ever hear of Porsche?

 

[Steve]

I have an '03 Impreza (non-WRX) with the bug eye lens and as far as I can
tell there is no hazing on them?

It starts as a very light haze kinda like condensation on the outside of the
lens toward the top (turnsignal part) and then grows down into the headlight
area. It seems to take a little longer than a year in service for the hazing to
start to show up. I'd keep an eye on it if I were you.

 

[Brent Burton]

|
| It starts as a very light haze kinda like condensation on the outside of
| the lens toward the top (turnsignal part) and then grows down into the
| headlight area. It seems to take a little longer than a year in service
| for the hazing to start to show up. I'd keep an eye on it if I were you.

Your warnings and generalizations are getting old, and in fact,
you are the first person I've seen mention having this problem
across the newsgroup and other forums.

I have a 2002 WRX Wagon (USA), purchased Dec 2001. It has 39,000 miles,
and was kept inside for the first year and outside since, but cleaned and
most importantly waxed periodically. It still looks great.

There is no hazing whatsoever on my lenses, in spite of it being outside
so much in central Texas. A few bug guts perhaps, but nothing with the
lens material itself.

 

[Byron]

Feedback I'm getting from Sube owners all over the US confirms the same problem

to some degree. Altitude, humidity, mileage or temperature doesn't seem to
matter. All seem to start showing haze at around a year. Hand washing, car ....

You meant to say some instead of all, right? My '02 'bug eyed' WRX has
never had the luxury of a garage and they're still very clear. Abraded
a bit from sand blasting, but clear. It was built in Japan Nov. 2001
and I bought in the USA in Feb. 2002. 55xxx miles.

I'm not doubting that it has happened to your car and to others as well,
but the word 'all' may be too strong. I wonder if there was a running
change in material or supplier. I have seen some cars with very bad
cases of hazing - enough that I wondered if the light output fell below
legal standards. But I haven't seen a Subaru with a case that bad yet.

Last week I was in a fender bender #^%$*)(&(! and one of the headlight
lenses cracked open. I looked at the cross-section and it appeared to
be uniformly clear.

I've lived with the car mostly in Boston, MA. There is some but not a
huge amount of air pollution there. I see a lot more smog in Phoenix,
AZ, but I haven't been here long enough to know if that makes any change
in lens clarity. Have most of the hazing lens reports come from owners
in high pollution areas?

 

[Steve]

All seem to start showing haze at around a year.

You meant to say some instead of all, right?

To clarify ... "all of the people who contacted me saying they HAD the same
problem start showing haze at around a year".

I did not mean to infer that ALL bug-eye 02-03 Imprezas and WRXes currently
have the problem.

Time will tell how many 02-03 headlights ultimately haze up and if the newer
04-05 headlights do the same thing after time.

I just trying to cure the disease rather than treat the symptom.