Ran 3.0 H6 with no oil!

[jamason56]

I have a 2002 Outback VDC Sedan, 3.0 H6 with 128,000 miles. I was
changing my oil a few days ago. The engine was a normal operating
temperature. As the oil was draining, I decided to check the automatic
transmission fluid, forgetting that I was draining the oil (!). I
started the engine, shifted through the gears and checked the fluid
level, which was a bit high. I turned engine off, drained a bit of
transmission fluid and started engine and checked fluid level once
again. When checking the transmission fluid, the engine remained at
idle for a couple of minutes each time. There were no unusual noises
while I was checking the transmission fluid. I finally realized that I
had been ran the engine before refilling the oil. I was in shock.I
immediately put the oil drain plug back on, changed the filter, and
refilled with oil. On restarting the engine, I heard the lifters
refilling for about a second, but this time they were much louder than
normal, of course. I then started checking over the whole engine
listening for any odd sounds of disaster, but everything sounded
normal. I took the car out for a short drive very carefully (and
nervously)... everything appeared to be OK. Later that evening, I took
the car out for a longer drive, and again everything seemed OK. No
unusual noises, or performance issues. Water temp normal, etc. I've
since put about 400 miles on the car, oil levels normal, temps normal,
performance same. The only noises from the engine are the lifters
clattering a bit, the same as they were doing before I changed the
oil.
I realize I am stupid for having done this, but what does everyone
think about any damage I might have done to the engine? Any
recommendations about what I should do at this point?
Thanks,
John

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

I have a 2002 Outback VDC Sedan, 3.0 H6 with 128,000 miles. I was
changing my oil a few days ago. The engine was a normal operating
temperature. As the oil was draining, I decided to check the automatic
transmission fluid, forgetting that I was draining the oil (!). I
started the engine, shifted through the gears and checked the fluid
level, which was a bit high. I turned engine off, drained a bit of
transmission fluid and started engine and checked fluid level once
again. When checking the transmission fluid, the engine remained at
idle for a couple of minutes each time. There were no unusual noises
while I was checking the transmission fluid. I finally realized that I
had been ran the engine before refilling the oil. I was in shock.I
immediately put the oil drain plug back on, changed the filter, and
refilled with oil. On restarting the engine, I heard the lifters
refilling for about a second, but this time they were much louder than
normal, of course. I then started checking over the whole engine
listening for any odd sounds of disaster, but everything sounded
normal. I took the car out for a short drive very carefully (and
nervously)... everything appeared to be OK. Later that evening, I took
the car out for a longer drive, and again everything seemed OK. No
unusual noises, or performance issues. Water temp normal, etc. I've
since put about 400 miles on the car, oil levels normal, temps normal,
performance same. The only noises from the engine are the lifters
clattering a bit, the same as they were doing before I changed the
oil.
I realize I am stupid for having done this, but what does everyone
think about any damage I might have done to the engine? Any
recommendations about what I should do at this point?
Thanks,
John

I doubt there's any way to know if you've reduced the lifespan of the
engine by 5,000 miles or 50,000 miles or 150,000 miles. At least it
was idling and not under 'heavy load'.

I suppose you could have a compression test done and if that was low
(how low?) you might switch to a high-mileage oil or ???

 

[S]

Hi John!

I realize I am stupid for having done this, but what does everyone
think about any damage I might have done to the engine? Any
recommendations about what I should do at this point?
Thanks,
John

Boy, I _wish_ I could say that I've never done anything like that, but
alas . . .

Everything inside of a working engine is pretty oily; even after you
drain the oil pan, there's still lots left. Additionally, the crank
and rod bearings hold oil in the bronze bearing material by design.
As long as you didn't allow a lot of heat to build up in the engine
(as would have happened if you had jumped in and gone to the liquor
store or something) it's unlikely that you damaged anything. Worst
case, you "aged" things a little, but since the engine was only at an
idle for a few minutes, I can't imagine that even that would be
significant.
If you want to do something to make amends, you might consider putting
in a good oil additive, driving it for a few miles, and then draining
and refilling with fresh oil. This will clean up any sticky "stressed"
oil deposits you might have created. Might even quiet those lifters a
bit.
And John . . . _do_ put the oil in this time

ByeBye! S.


Steve Jernigan KG0MB
Laboratory Manager
Microelectronics Research
University of Colorado
(719) 262-3101

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

Hi John!



Boy, I _wish_ I could say that I've never done anything like that, but
alas . . .

Everything inside of a working engine is pretty oily; even after you
drain the oil pan, there's still lots left. Additionally, the crank
and rod bearings hold oil in the bronze bearing material by design.
As long as you didn't allow a lot of heat to build up in the engine
(as would have happened if you had jumped in and gone to the liquor
store or something) it's unlikely that you damaged anything. Worst
case, you "aged" things a little, but since the engine was only at an
idle for a few minutes, I can't imagine that even that would be
significant.
If you want to do something to make amends, you might consider putting
in a good oil additive, driving it for a few miles, and then draining
and refilling with fresh oil. This will clean up any sticky "stressed"
oil deposits you might have created. Might even quiet those lifters a
bit.
And John . . . _do_ put the oil in this time

ByeBye! S.

Steve Jernigan KG0MB
Laboratory Manager
Microelectronics Research
University of Colorado
(719) 262-3101

On the plus side - VERY THOROUGH OIL DRAIN TECHNIQUE!

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

I have a 2002 Outback VDC Sedan, 3.0 H6 with 128,000 miles. I was changing
my oil a few days ago. The engine was a normal operating temperature. As
the oil was draining, I decided to check the automatic transmission fluid,
forgetting that I was draining the oil (!). I started the engine, shifted
through the gears and checked the fluid level, which was a bit high. I
turned engine off, drained a bit of transmission fluid and started engine
and checked fluid level once again. When checking the transmission fluid,
the engine remained at idle for a couple of minutes each time. There were
no unusual noises while I was checking the transmission fluid. I finally
realized that I had been ran the engine before refilling the oil. I was in
shock.I immediately put the oil drain plug back on, changed the filter,
and refilled with oil. On restarting the engine, I heard the lifters
refilling for about a second, but this time they were much louder than
normal, of course. I then started checking over the whole engine listening
for any odd sounds of disaster, but everything sounded normal. I took the
car out for a short drive very carefully (and nervously)... everything
appeared to be OK. Later that evening, I took the car out for a longer
drive, and again everything seemed OK. No unusual noises, or performance
issues. Water temp normal, etc. I've since put about 400 miles on the car,
oil levels normal, temps normal, performance same. The only noises from
the engine are the lifters clattering a bit, the same as they were doing
before I changed the oil.
I realize I am stupid for having done this, but what does everyone think
about any damage I might have done to the engine? Any recommendations
about what I should do at this point? Thanks,
John

I would think with modern lubricants, and since you only idled the engine
for a short time that you didn't cause a lot of damage. If it were 30-40
years ago I'd be a little more worried, but these days...

What kind of oil do you use? If it's a synthetic you've probably done no
damage at all.

 

[jamason56]

What kind of oil do you use? If it's a synthetic you've probably done no

damage at all.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks to all for a bit of comforting. I probably needed that run to
the liquor store after having done this! As for the thourough drain
technique? Yes, I had thought about that ... normally when I remove
the oil filter, it's still about half full of old oil. This time it
was empty. Also, when I checked the oil after starting the engine, the
oil was not the clear oil you normally see right after changing the
oil... it had a bit of a darker brown appearance. Maybe I ended up
getting some crude out of there. I don't want to get too optimistic. I
put Castrol GTX 5W-30 in this time. I've never used synthetic... don't
know why. I had been using high mileage oil for the last 50,000 miles.
For some reason I just got 'regular' oil this time. I like the idea
about getting an additive and changing the oil shortly. I'll do
that... and you can *bet* it'll be a long time before I do this
again!
So while we are on the subject... and I know this can get religious,
but what are everyone's opinions on the different types of oils to
use? I've never been partial to one brand or another. I've gone back
and forth between 5W-30 and 10W-30 in this car... using high mileage
recently, as mentioned above. Never have tried synthetic. I guess I'm
too old fashioned. Thoughts about oil?
John

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

Thanks to all for a bit of comforting. I probably needed that run to the
liquor store after having done this! As for the thourough drain technique?
Yes, I had thought about that ... normally when I remove the oil
filter, it's still about half full of old oil. This time it was empty.
Also, when I checked the oil after starting the engine, the oil was not
the clear oil you normally see right after changing the oil... it had a
bit of a darker brown appearance. Maybe I ended up getting some crude out
of there. I don't want to get too optimistic. I put Castrol GTX 5W-30 in
this time. I've never used synthetic... don't know why. I had been using
high mileage oil for the last 50,000 miles. For some reason I just got
'regular' oil this time. I like the idea about getting an additive and
changing the oil shortly. I'll do that... and you can *bet* it'll be a
long time before I do this again!
So while we are on the subject... and I know this can get religious, but
what are everyone's opinions on the different types of oils to use? I've
never been partial to one brand or another. I've gone back and forth
between 5W-30 and 10W-30 in this car... using high mileage recently, as
mentioned above. Never have tried synthetic. I guess I'm too old
fashioned. Thoughts about oil? John

I started using Castrol GTX somewhere in the late 70's/early 80's. I had a
'79 Corolla 1200 that went 50,000 miles and met it's untimely end when a
Mustang pulled out right in front of me.

The next one was an '80 Corolla that got Castrol GTX (3.5 qts) with a
quart of Marvel Mystery Oil mixed in for good measure. I used to use Lee
filters but when they went away I started using Toyota filters (Consumer
Reports did a filter test. Lee rated fairly high, but a sidebar said, if
you own a Toyota you get the BEST filters made, so I stopped using Lees.)
That car went 244,000 miles before being traded for an '85 Corolla GTS.
That car got the GTX/MMO mix and is sitting in my backyard with 259,000
showing on the clock. It got mostly Toyota filters.

I have an '89 Mazda 626 I bought in 2006 with 158,000 on it. It, too got
the GTX/MMO treatment, but started developing a nasty clacking noise.
After poking around Google I found this is common because the Hydraulic
Lash Adjusters used in this car collapse over time and need to be
replaced. I bought a box of 4 for $58 at the local AutoZone, but for
laughs I did an oil change before installing them. This time I used Quaker
State High Mileage oil with Slick 50 already in it. After about 50 miles I
brought the HLAs back and got my money back. It has 188,000 on it now and
when the HLAs start clacking I change the oil with QS Hi-Mileage and it
goes away. (Phew!)

I swapped all my older cars over to QS and it seems to be OK. I have an
'88 Supra I was using GTX in until the success with the Mazda, and an '89
GL Coupe AWD that also gets the QS H/M oil.

The only thing I am still using Castrol in is my 2005 Scion tC, and I use
genuine Toyota filters with Castrol Synthetic and change it around 4,500
miles. All the other, old cars get oil changes around 3,500.

 

[jamason56]

I started using Castrol GTX somewhere in the late 70's/early 80's. I had a
'79 Corolla 1200 that went 50,000 miles and met it's untimely end when a
Mustang pulled out right in front of me.

The next one was an '80 Corolla that got Castrol GTX (3.5 qts) with a
quart of Marvel Mystery Oil mixed in for good measure. I used to use Lee
filters but when they went away I started using Toyota filters (Consumer
Reports did a filter test. Lee rated fairly high, but a sidebar said, if
you own a Toyota you get the BEST filters made, so I stopped using Lees.)
That car went 244,000 miles before being traded for an '85 Corolla GTS.
That car got the GTX/MMO mix and is sitting in my backyard with 259,000
showing on the clock. It got mostly Toyota filters.

I have an '89 Mazda 626 I bought in 2006 with 158,000 on it. It, too got
the GTX/MMO treatment, but started developing a nasty clacking noise.
After poking around Google I found this is common because the Hydraulic
Lash Adjusters used in this car collapse over time and need to be
replaced. I bought a box of 4 for $58 at the local AutoZone, but for
laughs I did an oil change before installing them. This time I used Quaker
State High Mileage oil with Slick 50 already in it. After about 50 miles I
brought the HLAs back and got my money back. It has 188,000 on it now and
when the HLAs start clacking I change the oil with QS Hi-Mileage and it
goes away. (Phew!)

I swapped all my older cars over to QS and it seems to be OK. I have an
'88 Supra I was using GTX in until the success with the Mazda, and an '89
GL Coupe AWD that also gets the QS H/M oil.

The only thing I am still using Castrol in is my 2005 Scion tC, and I use
genuine Toyota filters with Castrol Synthetic and change it around 4,500
miles. All the other, old cars get oil changes around 3,500.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I've used the Quaker State w/Slick 50 before. Might go back to that.
I've never used MMO. I'll try that this time out.
Thanks!
John

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

***snip*** Also, when I checked the oil after starting the engine, the
oil was not the clear oil you normally see right after changing the
oil... it had a bit of a darker brown appearance. Maybe I ended up
getting some crude out of there.

I might be tempted to do another oil/filter change after 300-500 miles
or so. Just in case you had some 'coking' or other issues going on and
those materials are getting cleaned out with this new oil.

 

[jamason56]

I might be tempted to do another oil/filter change after 300-500 miles
or so. Just in case you had some 'coking' or other issues going on and
those materials are getting cleaned out with this new oil.

Will do. I am just a bit over 500 miles. No problems. Keeping my
fingers crossed.
John

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

Will do. I am just a bit over 500 miles. No problems. Keeping my
fingers crossed.
John

Uh, this time, put your car keys UNDER the jug of new oil.

;^)

Carl

 

[jamason56]

Uh, this time, put your car keys UNDER the jug of new oil.

;^)

Carl- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Carl -
That is certainly great advice!
I know the shock of this event has been permanently ingrained into my
brain so I know I am going to be triple cautious in the future!
John

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

Carl -
That is certainly great advice!
I know the shock of this event has been permanently ingrained into my
brain so I know I am going to be triple cautious in the future! John

Back in the goodle days when we used to just drain the oil into the ground
I was 7 miles from East Overshoe, NH and drained the oil, then filled the
crankcase, and THEN realized I hadn't put the drain plug back in!

I did it AGAIN 18 years later, only this time let the Slick 50 run right
out into the drain pan!! ;p

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

Back in the goodle days when we used to just drain the oil into the ground
I was 7 miles from East Overshoe, NH and drained the oil, then filled the
crankcase, and THEN realized I hadn't put the drain plug back in!

I did it AGAIN 18 years later, only this time let the Slick 50 run right
out into the drain pan!! ;p

When I was a teen, I was changing the oil in my dad's truck and, as i
was filling it up, I noticed something flowing past my feet! Yep,
didn't put the drain plug in.

lol!

Carl

 

[jamason56]

Back in the goodle days when we used to just drain the oil into the ground
I was 7 miles from East Overshoe, NH and drained the oil, then filled the
crankcase, and THEN realized I hadn't put the drain plug back in!

I did it AGAIN 18 years later, only this time let the Slick 50 run right
out into the drain pan!! ;p- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This is seriously funny! (no it's not)... but it's nice to know I was
not the only one!
John

 

[jamason56]

When I was a teen, I was changing the oil in my dad's truck and, as i
was filling it up, I noticed something flowing past my feet! Yep,
didn't put the drain plug in.

lol!

Carl- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I topped of my oil level with MOM a few days ago. I also put some in
my fuel system (which somehow seems weird to me). I've got about 700
miles on the car since the 'incident' and am looking at changing the
oil at about 1000 miles. I think I'm going back to Quaker State 5W-30
with Slick 50.
John

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

I topped of my oil level with MOM a few days ago. I also put some in
my fuel system (which somehow seems weird to me). I've got about 700
miles on the car since the 'incident' and am looking at changing the
oil at about 1000 miles. I think I'm going back to Quaker State 5W-30
with Slick 50.
John

I have no experience with MMO. I do try to use Techron once a year in
a both my cars cause I 'think' it may actually help clean injectors.

 

[weelliott]

Will do. I am just a bit over 500 miles. No problems. Keeping my
fingers crossed.
John

I think that concensus is that little damage was done. I'm normally an
optimist, and hate to rain on parades, but I feel you should know
something I know. A light rod knock can sound like a noisy lifter. I
know this from experience. I have a story of an oil-change
catastrophe.

I had an 84 Mercedes Diesel with the supposedly bullet-proof engine.
It doesn't have a typical spin-on oil filter. It instead has a housing
that the filter goes into with a lid that is held on by two nuts and
sealed by an O-ring. When I changed my filter and put the lid back on
that O-ring fell off the lid down into the chamber with the filter. So
it didn't seal. I filled the oil, did the check for the puddle of oil
under the car, saw none since oil isn't pressurized in that container
until the engine starts, and called it good. The next day I drove it,
starting out early in the morning while it was dark. This meant that I
didn't see the wide stripe of oil freshly formed on my driveway as I
backed out. For months you could trace my journey over the next
quarter mile by following the dark trail. I drove about a mile before
I realized I had no oil pressure. I shut it down, had it towed home,
and researched options. I decided to fill it up, run it for a minute,
then change the oil to get out any shavings collected in that minute.
After that I started it up and it had what to me sounded like heavy
valve tapping. Long story short it made it about 11.5 miles further.
Unfortunately I was on a 12 mile journey. The first few miles of that
journey were fairly normal, but it started losing power, then got
louder, then eventually failed gloriously.

Part of me doesn't want to post this and concern you about something
that might not be an issue, but I'd hate to see you use this car for a
long trip and get stranded a long way from home. I'd have a skilled
mechanic look it over with a stethoscope to see what he thinks the
sound is. Hopefully it is just lifters. Perhaps they haven't filled
yet.

Obviously you havne't done as much damage as I had done, so hopefully
if your engine does deteriorate more, it will be more gradual and you
will have plenty of time to detect it and act.

Either way, I wish you good luck with it.

Bill

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

This is seriously funny! (no it's not)... but it's nice to know I was not
the only one!
John

My daughter didn't think it was funny! She went in the house and told my
wife "Dad's so mad he's even MAKING UP new swears!"

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

When I was a teen, I was changing the oil in my dad's truck and, as i was
filling it up, I noticed something flowing past my feet! Yep, didn't put
the drain plug in.

lol!

Carl

I think it's some kind of Right of Passage.