Ugly rear wing on WRX

[CVS]

Test drove a 2004 WRX last night. I was impressed with the cars
performance, but its looks really put me off. Is there a way to replace the
rear wing with something less boy-racer? I found aftermarket wings that
were even BIGGER than the stock one. How about a smaller rear wing??
And then there's the hood scoop...

 

[CompUser]

Test drove a 2004 WRX last night. I was impressed with the cars
performance, but its looks really put me off. Is there a way to replace the
rear wing with something less boy-racer? I found aftermarket wings that
were even BIGGER than the stock one. How about a smaller rear wing??
And then there's the hood scoop...

Sure it wasn't an STi WRX?

Yes, you can take the spoiler off, if ya don't
like.

Hood scoop has functional purpose in life, you'll
have to live with that one unless you want to
spring for front-mount intercooler.

 

[Jim Stewart]

Test drove a 2004 WRX last night. I was impressed with the cars
performance, but its looks really put me off. Is there a way to replace the
rear wing with something less boy-racer? I found aftermarket wings that
were even BIGGER than the stock one. How about a smaller rear wing??
And then there's the hood scoop...

You don't say whether you're buying new or used.
You can get a new WRX without the spoiler. My
wife has a 2004 without.

 

[FNO]

Test drove a 2004 WRX last night. I was impressed with the cars
performance, but its looks really put me off. Is there a way to replace the
rear wing with something less boy-racer? I found aftermarket wings that
were even BIGGER than the stock one. How about a smaller rear wing??
And then there's the hood scoop...

Sounds like the WRX STi you test drove. The WRX is either has no spoiler or
a low, flat one. The WRX has an 8-inch high wing spoiler. Though there are
those who say you can remove it, the thing is functional and it is best not
to. However, if you do, you can exchange the trunk lid for a WRX one that
has the low deck spoiler or none at all. As for the hood scoop, you need
it.

 

[Ignignokt]

Sounds like the WRX STi you test drove. The WRX is either has no
spoiler or a low, flat one. The WRX has an 8-inch high wing spoiler.
Though there are those who say you can remove it, the thing is
functional and it is best not to. However, if you do, you can
exchange the trunk lid for a WRX one that has the low deck spoiler or
none at all. As for the hood scoop, you need it.

Okay, here's the thing about the "functional" wing on the STi: The non-STi
WRX seems to manage just fine without it, and has a nearly
identically-shaped body. So whatever "functionality" the boy-racer wing
adds to the aerodynamics of the car is obviously not of such monumental
importance that removing it is going to put you in a ditch someplace.
Either that or it only kicks in in those few triple-digit speeds at the top
end that the stock STi can manage over the stock non-STi WRX sedan, and that
can only be legally approached -- let alone actually attained -- on a track
or in Germany.

If you don't like the looks of the wing, ditch it and never look back.
There are doubtless thousands of non-STi Impreza owners would give not only
their trunk lid, but also their left testicle to have your
grotesquely-winged STi trunk lid. A few of them might even have the same
color car as you. (Hint, buy your STi in a color that's also available on a
non-STi Impreza.) My advice is to take their trunk lid but pass on the
testicle. It probably hasn't got any hair on it yet, anyway.

Ignore those who warn that you'll irreversibly alter the car's handling or
performance by removing the towering wing of puberty. They're deluding
themselves into thinking that their "rice-ier than thou" bolt-on appearance
pieces are something more than bolt-on appearance pieces. They're not. Or
at the very least, not enough to warrant keeping them if you think they're
ugly.

- Greg Reed

[ Note: The opinions expressed herein are the gospel and objective truth,
wholly exempt from both scrutiny and criticism. So don't even bother.
]

 

[Jani]

Well, like 4 times World Champion Juha Kankkunen put it in a tabloid
magazine short test "what ever is the reason for this huge wing, I dont
understand it". I believe it says it all, but still, I do like it!

Sounds like the WRX STi you test drove. The WRX is either has no
spoiler or a low, flat one. The WRX has an 8-inch high wing spoiler.
Though there are those who say you can remove it, the thing is
functional and it is best not to. However, if you do, you can
exchange the trunk lid for a WRX one that has the low deck spoiler or
none at all. As for the hood scoop, you need it.

Okay, here's the thing about the "functional" wing on the STi: The non-STi
WRX seems to manage just fine without it, and has a nearly
identically-shaped body. So whatever "functionality" the boy-racer wing
adds to the aerodynamics of the car is obviously not of such monumental
importance that removing it is going to put you in a ditch someplace.
Either that or it only kicks in in those few triple-digit speeds at the top
end that the stock STi can manage over the stock non-STi WRX sedan, and that
can only be legally approached -- let alone actually attained -- on a track
or in Germany.

If you don't like the looks of the wing, ditch it and never look back.
There are doubtless thousands of non-STi Impreza owners would give not only
their trunk lid, but also their left testicle to have your
grotesquely-winged STi trunk lid. A few of them might even have the same
color car as you. (Hint, buy your STi in a color that's also available on a
non-STi Impreza.) My advice is to take their trunk lid but pass on the
testicle. It probably hasn't got any hair on it yet, anyway.

Ignore those who warn that you'll irreversibly alter the car's handling or
performance by removing the towering wing of puberty. They're deluding
themselves into thinking that their "rice-ier than thou" bolt-on appearance
pieces are something more than bolt-on appearance pieces. They're not. Or
at the very least, not enough to warrant keeping them if you think they're
ugly.

- Greg Reed

[ Note: The opinions expressed herein are the gospel and objective truth,
wholly exempt from both scrutiny and criticism. So don't even bother.
]

--
1983 Honda V45 Magna
2001 Chevy Astro AWD (wife's)
2004 Subaru Forester XT 5-Speed




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[Chris Phillipo]

Okay, here's the thing about the "functional" wing on the STi: The non-STi
WRX seems to manage just fine without it, and has a nearly
identically-shaped body. So whatever "functionality" the boy-racer wing
adds to the aerodynamics of the car is obviously not of such monumental
importance that removing it is going to put you in a ditch someplace.
Either that or it only kicks in in those few triple-digit speeds at the top
end that the stock STi can manage over the stock non-STi WRX sedan, and that
can only be legally approached -- let alone actually attained -- on a track
or in Germany.

If you don't like the looks of the wing, ditch it and never look back.
There are doubtless thousands of non-STi Impreza owners would give not only
their trunk lid, but also their left testicle to have your
grotesquely-winged STi trunk lid. A few of them might even have the same
color car as you. (Hint, buy your STi in a color that's also available on a
non-STi Impreza.) My advice is to take their trunk lid but pass on the
testicle. It probably hasn't got any hair on it yet, anyway.

Ignore those who warn that you'll irreversibly alter the car's handling or
performance by removing the towering wing of puberty. They're deluding
themselves into thinking that their "rice-ier than thou" bolt-on appearance
pieces are something more than bolt-on appearance pieces. They're not. Or
at the very least, not enough to warrant keeping them if you think they're
ugly.

- Greg Reed

[ Note: The opinions expressed herein are the gospel and objective truth,
wholly exempt from both scrutiny and criticism. So don't even bother.
]

That sleeper STI they did on tuner transformation was the best looking
STI IMO although I would have color matched the trunk to the rest of the
car. You could probably sell the trunk lid and spoiler and get a
regular Impreza trunk lid and come out a few bucks ahead in the exchange
because for every guy with an STI that wants it to look like a plane
jane Impreza, there are 50 guys that have the plain jane Impreza and
want people to think it isn't

 

[Ignignokt]

That sleeper STI they did on tuner transformation was the best looking
STI IMO although I would have color matched the trunk to the rest of
the car. You could probably sell the trunk lid and spoiler and get a
regular Impreza trunk lid and come out a few bucks ahead in the
exchange because for every guy with an STI that wants it to look like
a plane jane Impreza, there are 50 guys that have the plain jane
Impreza and want people to think it isn't

My 15yo has a magazine called Sport Compact Car (or something like that)
with a couple of pretty good Subaru articles in it. What drew my attention
to the magazine was the cover story: They completely "stealthed" an STi --
apparently an on-going project car of theirs. By the time they were done,
every external indication that it was an STi was gone (except the oversize
hood scoop and HID headlamps). The trunklid was, of course, replaced with a
wingless version, along with a whole slew other other body panel swap-outs.
They then painted the whole thing *flat black*! (With spray cans from the
local Mega-Mart, IIRC.) Even the wheels were flat black, though I don't
remember whether they painted or replaced them. I have to say that I really
liked the looks of their STi when they got done with it: It was all
business and no flash -- completely mean-looking, like something straight
out of a Mad Max movie.

The other really good article was about the Forester XT: Somebody made a
bunch of handling mods that involved replacing stock Forester suspension and
steering components with stock WRX sedan components -- IOW, the way Subaru
should have outfitted the car themselves. Stiffer spring rates, larger
anti-roll bars, linear steering rack, lower ride height... Me likey the
result, but not the cost. Hell, for the cost of an XT plus those
modifications, I could just buy an STi -- and then stealth it out in flat
black.

If anybody's interested, I can try to track down that magazine to get you
the correct title and issue. It's probably buried somewhere in the boy's
room -- which is okay, because there's a place right down the street that
will rent me a front-end loader....

- Greg Reed

 

[FNO]

Okay, here's the thing about the "functional" wing on the STi: The non-STi
WRX seems to manage just fine without it, and has a nearly
identically-shaped body. So whatever "functionality" the boy-racer wing
adds to the aerodynamics of the car is obviously not of such monumental
importance that removing it is going to put you in a ditch someplace.
Either that or it only kicks in in those few triple-digit speeds at the top
end that the stock STi can manage over the stock non-STi WRX sedan, and that
can only be legally approached -- let alone actually attained -- on a track
or in Germany.

You're wrong. The STi may have the same body shape, but it also has
completely different balance than other Imprezas because of the bigger
engine, different torque distribution between the front and rear wheels,
lighter body panels and lighter glass. The may share body panels with the
Impreza, but in every other way, they are a different car. Contrary to
popular belief, the wing does not provide downforce. Its function is to
bisect the airflow over the roof and balance the lift forces between the
front and rear of the car. In essence, it reduces drag from air spilling
over the rear of the car. That effect begins at a little less than 50 MPH
(85 KPH). Translation? A bit more stability at highway speeds, better
handling on twisties, and a very small increase in gas mileage.

If you only drive the thing in a straight line, the only benefit you will
get from the wing is that the car is easier to drive in the wind. The
verticals on the wing keep it from being nearly as badly affected by wind
shear than a regular Impreza. But if you are traveling the twisties, the
effect is noticeable. I have driven both a Stage 2 WRX (putting out the
same kind of power as the STi) with modded suspension, and I own the STi.
The STi still feels hands-down better on twisty roads because it doesn't
have nearly the tendency to push under power that the WRX does; it is better
balanced.

If you don't like the looks of the wing, ditch it and never look back.
There are doubtless thousands of non-STi Impreza owners would give not only
their trunk lid, but also their left testicle to have your
grotesquely-winged STi trunk lid. A few of them might even have the same
color car as you. (Hint, buy your STi in a color that's also available on a
non-STi Impreza.) My advice is to take their trunk lid but pass on the
testicle. It probably hasn't got any hair on it yet, anyway.

Ignore those who warn that you'll irreversibly alter the car's handling or
performance by removing the towering wing of puberty. They're deluding
themselves into thinking that their "rice-ier than thou" bolt-on appearance
pieces are something more than bolt-on appearance pieces. They're not. Or
at the very least, not enough to warrant keeping them if you think they're
ugly.

Again, it depends on what you are using the car for and where. It won't
irreversibly alter the handling; and certainly not on an interstate. If you
are driving in a generally windy place (as I do) it makes the car infinitely
easier to drive. If you are driving on poor surfaces, such as dirt or snow
(again, as I do), the lift force balance you get tends to keep you facing in
the right direction.

If you don't like it, go ahead and take it off. But, to suggest you need to
be on a track or the autobahn to get a benefit from it is crazy.

 

[BlueSTi]

My 15yo has a magazine called Sport Compact Car (or something like that)
with a couple of pretty good Subaru articles in it. What drew my attention
to the magazine was the cover story: They completely "stealthed" an STi --
apparently an on-going project car of theirs. By the time they were done,
every external indication that it was an STi was gone (except the oversize
hood scoop and HID headlamps). The trunklid was, of course, replaced with a
wingless version, along with a whole slew other other body panel swap-outs.
They then painted the whole thing *flat black*! (With spray cans from the
local Mega-Mart, IIRC.) Even the wheels were flat black, though I don't
remember whether they painted or replaced them. I have to say that I really
liked the looks of their STi when they got done with it: It was all
business and no flash -- completely mean-looking, like something straight
out of a Mad Max movie.


1983 Honda V45 Magna
2001 Chevy Astro AWD (wife's)
2004 Subaru Forester XT 5-Speed

What a bunch of idiots! Rattle-can a $32,000 sports car? Paint BBS
alloy wheels black? Can you imagine someone taking a new Corvette and
taking a can a spray paint to it???
I guess I have never understood the "sleeper" concept. I've owned my
STi about a year and I have yet to have anyone want to "race" me. I
don't know if this is because they know they STi's potential or if I
just don't get into that situation. But, then again, I don't have
any intention of racing anyone. I'm not particularly fond of the
spoiler. But, it does at least make it unique in a quirky sort of
way. Take away the spoiler and hood scoop and it looses a lot of it's
personality.


BlueSTi
"Scary-Fast"

 

[Chris Phillipo]

My 15yo has a magazine called Sport Compact Car (or something like that)
with a couple of pretty good Subaru articles in it. What drew my attention
to the magazine was the cover story: They completely "stealthed" an STi --
apparently an on-going project car of theirs. By the time they were done,
every external indication that it was an STi was gone (except the oversize
hood scoop and HID headlamps). The trunklid was, of course, replaced with a
wingless version, along with a whole slew other other body panel swap-outs.
They then painted the whole thing *flat black*! (With spray cans from the
local Mega-Mart, IIRC.) Even the wheels were flat black, though I don't
remember whether they painted or replaced them. I have to say that I really
liked the looks of their STi when they got done with it: It was all
business and no flash -- completely mean-looking, like something straight
out of a Mad Max movie.

The other really good article was about the Forester XT: Somebody made a
bunch of handling mods that involved replacing stock Forester suspension and
steering components with stock WRX sedan components -- IOW, the way Subaru
should have outfitted the car themselves. Stiffer spring rates, larger
anti-roll bars, linear steering rack, lower ride height... Me likey the
result, but not the cost. Hell, for the cost of an XT plus those
modifications, I could just buy an STi -- and then stealth it out in flat
black.

If anybody's interested, I can try to track down that magazine to get you
the correct title and issue. It's probably buried somewhere in the boy's
room -- which is okay, because there's a place right down the street that
will rent me a front-end loader....

- Greg Reed

There is a guy around these parts that races a Forrester that he
basically made into an STi beofore Subaru got it int heir head to make
one. The suspension swap alone cost more than my car.

 

[Chris Phillipo]

I guess I have never understood the "sleeper" concept. I've owned my
STi about a year and I have yet to have anyone want to "race" me. I
don't know if this is because they know they STi's potential or if I
just don't get into that situation. But, then again, I don't have
any intention of racing anyone. I'm not particularly fond of the
spoiler. But, it does at least make it unique in a quirky sort of
way. Take away the spoiler and hood scoop and it looses a lot of it's
personality.


BlueSTi
"Scary-Fast"

I think a car pianted head to toe flat black is going to scream "Look at
me I'm trying not to be conspicuous!!! No really, look over here at
me!!!" A true sleeper car should look like a stock model, preferably
one of a lower trim level.

 

[Ignignokt]

What a bunch of idiots! Rattle-can a $32,000 sports car? Paint BBS
alloy wheels black? Can you imagine someone taking a new Corvette and
taking a can a spray paint to it???
I guess I have never understood the "sleeper" concept. I've owned my
STi about a year and I have yet to have anyone want to "race" me. I
don't know if this is because they know they STi's potential or if I
just don't get into that situation. But, then again, I don't have
any intention of racing anyone. I'm not particularly fond of the
spoiler. But, it does at least make it unique in a quirky sort of
way. Take away the spoiler and hood scoop and it looses a lot of it's
personality.

For me, the desire to have a "sleeper" isn't so much to dissuade drag racers
or to give me some sort of advantage in the same. It isn't even about
dissuading theft, which I understand can be a noteworthy consideration in
some parts of the world (my own little neck of the woods being thankfully
exempt for the most part). For me, the desire to have a car with whose
appearance hides its potential is a desire to make the statement that I
don't need to make a statement -- as paradoxical as that sounds. For me,
the performance is all I need. For some, the performance isn't enough -- or
isn't even important at all. For some, the need is to attract other
people's attention; To show the world that you own a bad-ass car -- or
perhaps only to make them *think* that you own a bad-ass car, regardless of
whether or not it actually is such. I look smugly down on such people -- be
that a personality fault or not, it's the way it is. And because I have
such disdain for these poseurs and grand-standers, I actively seek to make
sure that I don't give even the slightest hint that I'm a poseur or a
grand-stander. Which is why I will own, by the time I'm done with it, (I
hope) a 350 HP Forester that gives no hint that it's any different from any
other Forester -- or as little hint as possible, given the necessary
functional modifications.

I have no problem with cars that have "personality." Heck, now that I have
my Forester, I have my eyes fixed fast on my next goal: A Nissan 350Z
("Enthusiast" package), to play with in the summer. This is a car whose
appearance doesn't hide its capabilities. But neither does it scream "Hey,
everybody, look at me!" There's a fine -- and completely subjective -- line
between attrative and gaudy in car design. IMO the STi's wing is what
pushes it past that line and into the realm of gaudy. The rest of the car's
unique body parts look good. Where the 350Z looks like a car that goes
fast, the bewigned STi looks like a car that wants attention. To me, the
STi wing falls into the same category as neon under-body lights, neon green
windshield wipers with little wings on them, colorful curly antennae, huge
chrome "spinner" wheels, and 6-inch wide "fart cannon" exhaust tips at the
end of 2-inch exhaust systems. I suppose some of these things might add
some functional advantage, as well. But not enough to overcome their
tackiness.

If you like the wing, by all means keep it. Your line is obviously not in
the same place as mine. Remember that I was responding to somebody who
specifically wrote to mention that he (she?) *dis*likes the appearance of
the wing. We each have different tastes. I would no sooner tell you to
yank your STi's wing that I would tell you to change your hair style -- even
if that hair style is a gold and purple mohawk. But I still don't think
that a gold and purple mohawk is for me. And when I see somebody else who
likes the STi but not the mohawk -- er, wing -- I think it's appropriate not
only to mention that it's okay to ditch the wing, but to *want* to ditch the
wing, as well.

- Greg Reed

 

[BlueSTi]

BlueSTi wrote:


I have no problem with cars that have "personality." Heck, now that I have
my Forester, I have my eyes fixed fast on my next goal: A Nissan 350Z
("Enthusiast" package), to play with in the summer. This is a car whose
appearance doesn't hide its capabilities. But neither does it scream "Hey,
everybody, look at me!" There's a fine -- and completely subjective -- line
between attrative and gaudy in car design. IMO the STi's wing is what
pushes it past that line and into the realm of gaudy. The rest of the car's
unique body parts look good. Where the 350Z looks like a car that goes
fast, the bewigned STi looks like a car that wants attention. <snip>

I'm just curious. Why the 350Z? I mean it lacks a lot of things that
I enjoy about the STi. The 350Z is a 2-seater, V6, is rear wheel
drive, softer brakes and has less power. The 3.5 liter motor of the Z
should be putting out about 420 hp considering it is a full 1000 cc
bigger than the STi . The STi has .12 hp/Lt. Why shouldn't the 350Z
at least do the same. It's not rocket science. But then again, if
you follow that fomula the 5.0 Mustang should be running about 600 hp!
I'd love to see that happen.
I would have to agree the 350Z is eye-candy but for about the same
amount of money you could buy the STi. More bang for the buck if you
ask me. For me to buy the 350Z it would need to have 100 more HP, AWD
and 2 more seats. I don't think that's going to happen.

BlueSTi
"Scary-Fast"

 

[Bonehenge]

For me, the desire to have a "sleeper" isn't so much to dissuade drag racers
or to give me some sort of advantage in the same. It isn't even about
dissuading theft, which I understand can be a noteworthy consideration in
some parts of the world (my own little neck of the woods being thankfully
exempt for the most part). For me, the desire to have a car with whose
appearance hides its potential is a desire to make the statement that I
don't need to make a statement -- as paradoxical as that sounds.

The sleeper is the exact opposite of Rice Boy.

Rice Boy adds wings, decals, removes one wiper, paints the mirrors
yellow, etc... to his 105 HP Civic, to make it look fast.

The sleeper _is_ fast. To me it's the automotive version of a person
with self esteem. <G>

Barry

 

[Ignignokt]

I'm just curious. Why the 350Z? I mean it lacks a lot of things that
I enjoy about the STi. The 350Z is a 2-seater, V6, is rear wheel
drive, softer brakes and has less power. The 3.5 liter motor of the Z
should be putting out about 420 hp considering it is a full 1000 cc
bigger than the STi . The STi has .12 hp/Lt.
Why shouldn't the 350Z
at least do the same. It's not rocket science. But then again, if
you follow that fomula the 5.0 Mustang should be running about 600 hp!

For some reason I've been under the impression that you're in the UK. Do
you get our Mustang there? Or do I have you misplaced? (We should really
all put our countries of origin at the top of our ... Oh, wait. That's
already been brought up, hasn't it?)

I'd love to see that happen.
I would have to agree the 350Z is eye-candy but for about the same
amount of money you could buy the STi. More bang for the buck if you
ask me. For me to buy the 350Z it would need to have 100 more HP, AWD
and 2 more seats. I don't think that's going to happen.

My like of the 350Z is so far based only on what I've seen and read of it.
And it's lack of a big ugly wing. It's so much only a dream that I
wouldn't bother a dealer for a test drive. So I can't really comment on
whether its brakes are softer. As for the power differential, remember that
the STi is running a bit more boost than the Nissan (the Nissan is naturally
aspirated -- along with the Mustang*). Try taking off your turbocharger and
see if you make 205 (which would correspond to the Nissan's 82HP/L power
density). Note that Subaru only pushes 165 out of the N/A 2.5L engine, for
a power density of 66HP/L. Suddenly the Nissan doesn't sound like quite
such a wimp. (And yes, I know that the "take off the turbo" isn't really a
fair comparison, since turbo-ed engines generally run lower compression
ratios to support higher levels of boost. It was for dramatic expression,
only.)

The Nissan's 287 HP is shy of the STi, sure. But you might remember from my
comments in other threads here that one thing I dislike about the Subaru
(relative to other cars I've owned) is its lack of refinement and -- well --
driver coddling, to be frank. I expect that the Nissan will be head and
shoulders above the STi in the refinement and coddling departments.

In addition, the ability to get an automatic transmission is a plus.
Something else you might remember from my comments in other threads here is
my frustration over the Forester's manual transmission. I've always loved
manuals -- this is the first car I've ever owned where I find myself
second-guessing the decision to forego an automatic. It could be the
problem is just this particular Forester, and not me. Or that it's all
Subarus. Or all Japanese cars. Or perhaps my clutchwork has always been
herky-jerky, and the smaller engine and lighter car are less able to absorb
it than other cars I've driven. Regardless of the reason, the experience
has made me stick-shy -- at least for the moment.

And since I'll be keeping the Forester, the Nissan won't have to fulfill
*all* of my life needs. The forester will have AWD for winter and cargo
room for when I pick up that new television set or whatever. I mentioned
the Nissan only because I'd just minutes earlier been poking around the web
dreaming about what car I wanted next -- it was merely a coincidence that a
thread popped up offering an excuse to talk about it. Or perhaps it
wouldn't have mattered *what* thread popped up -- I was bound and determined
to ramble on about it, regardless. In my web searching, I was looking for a
relatively affordable RWD 2-seater for summertime fun driving.

The specific cars that I checked out were the Audi TT (the V6 with DSG),
Mazda RX-8 (which is actually a 2+2, not a two-seater), Miata MX-5 (or
whatever their new turbocharged Miata is called), Chrysler Crossfire SRT-6,
and the 350Z. After comparing the specs, appearance, and prices of all, I
settled on the 350Z. Not all of these cars are available in an automatic,
but then I *was* just dreaming...

* On a completely unrelated note, I had a little fun with a newer Mustang GT
yesterday. He was behind me on a two-lane road, and I behind a Chevy Malibu
that was going about 55 mph (the posted speed limit). When the approaching
traffic finally cleared, I pulled out to pass, and he right behind me. (He
actually thought he was going to pass the both of us. He was wrong.) I'll
spare you the gory details, but suffice it to say that from 55 mph, "that
ugly little SUV" (to use somebody else's words) can out-accelerate a Mustang
GT. Handily. The best part was the people in the Mustang: The driver was
a male of about 20 years (by my estimation -- I could count his pimples in
my mirror at the moment we both pulled out to make the pass) and his two
passengers were females of about the same age. I certainly hope the latter
don't hang out with the former just because of his fast car. Wait... Maybe
I *do* hope that...

- Greg

 

[JaySee]

For some reason I've been under the impression that you're in the UK. Do
you get our Mustang there? Or do I have you misplaced? (We should really
all put our countries of origin at the top of our ... Oh, wait. That's
already been brought up, hasn't it?)

Well I'm from the US

My like of the 350Z is so far based only on what I've seen and read of it.
And it's lack of a big ugly wing. It's so much only a dream that I
wouldn't bother a dealer for a test drive. So I can't really comment on
whether its brakes are softer. As for the power differential, remember that
the STi is running a bit more boost than the Nissan (the Nissan is naturally
aspirated -- along with the Mustang*). Try taking off your turbocharger and
see if you make 205 (which would correspond to the Nissan's 82HP/L power
density). Note that Subaru only pushes 165 out of the N/A 2.5L engine, for
a power density of 66HP/L. Suddenly the Nissan doesn't sound like quite
such a wimp. (And yes, I know that the "take off the turbo" isn't really a
fair comparison, since turbo-ed engines generally run lower compression
ratios to support higher levels of boost. It was for dramatic expression,
only.)

No boost is no excuse for not having 100hp per liter. Honda, BMW,
Ferrari have proven that. Nissan knows how to make 100 hp per liter.
They did it in the European Nissan Primera (G20 in the US). It had
the SR20VE, a 2 liter motor with variable valve timing and lift with
direct injection that pumped out 200 hp.

The VQ35DE in the 350Z is a wimp because it lacks Variable Valve
Timing and Lift and/or Direct Injection. Quite frankly, Nissan didn't
want to put that much money into the engine, so they just bumped up
the displacement to get the hp up and give it low-end grunt and
torque. Classic American Thinking.

100 hp/liter can't be done or hasn't been figured out how to be done
without the loss of low-end torque. Great example is the BMW M5
coming out. It gets a bump in displacement and 2 extra cylinders, but
has less torque and peak torque later in the rev band than the old V8
to make 100 hp per liter.

The Nissan's 287 HP is shy of the STi, sure. But you might remember from my
comments in other threads here that one thing I dislike about the Subaru
(relative to other cars I've owned) is its lack of refinement and -- well --
driver coddling, to be frank. I expect that the Nissan will be head and
shoulders above the STi in the refinement and coddling departments.

In addition, the ability to get an automatic transmission is a plus.
Something else you might remember from my comments in other threads here is
my frustration over the Forester's manual transmission. I've always loved
manuals -- this is the first car I've ever owned where I find myself
second-guessing the decision to forego an automatic. It could be the
problem is just this particular Forester, and not me. Or that it's all
Subarus. Or all Japanese cars. Or perhaps my clutchwork has always been
herky-jerky, and the smaller engine and lighter car are less able to absorb
it than other cars I've driven. Regardless of the reason, the experience
has made me stick-shy -- at least for the moment.

And since I'll be keeping the Forester, the Nissan won't have to fulfill
*all* of my life needs. The forester will have AWD for winter and cargo
room for when I pick up that new television set or whatever. I mentioned
the Nissan only because I'd just minutes earlier been poking around the web
dreaming about what car I wanted next -- it was merely a coincidence that a
thread popped up offering an excuse to talk about it. Or perhaps it
wouldn't have mattered *what* thread popped up -- I was bound and determined
to ramble on about it, regardless. In my web searching, I was looking for a
relatively affordable RWD 2-seater for summertime fun driving.

The specific cars that I checked out were the Audi TT (the V6 with DSG),
Mazda RX-8 (which is actually a 2+2, not a two-seater), Miata MX-5 (or
whatever their new turbocharged Miata is called), Chrysler Crossfire SRT-6,
and the 350Z. After comparing the specs, appearance, and prices of all, I
settled on the 350Z. Not all of these cars are available in an automatic,
but then I *was* just dreaming...

Turbo Miata = MazdaSpeed Miata.
Boo! to Automatics. ;-)

 

[Jani]

Hi Guys (writing from Finland)

I think this conversation is totally unneeded because we are talking about
two totally different kind of cars. I do not have experience from Nissan,
but did considered it when choosing my new car. However, to me Nissan wasn`t
something I liked, nor needed in these harsh conditions with 6 months of
slush and snow.... so you already know what I chose ;-)

But seriously, I mean, talking about turbo or non-turbo, is really stupid.
If STI has turbo and 265hp so what.... do you compare the car with Nissan
and allow you to speculate "well, if the Nissan would have one it would..."
yes but it doesnt have it, so thats it.

I think its needless to say, but for me the biggest reason for choosing
Subaru was its excellent 4 wheels drive technique, performance and a
reasonable price (well, you pay lot less and earn lot more in general in
USA) and ability to cope with mentioned conditions. Here, Nissan would be
summer season car, but understandably not the same situation there (at least
in some parts of USA). I believe you speculated the rest of the reasong
already (maybe these one as well) so I rest my case for now.

Btw, I chose WRX, because it lacks the "too rallylike" looks and is very
close in performance vise the STI, being 15.000 dollars less. STI is also a
car that needs serious changes in exhaust, ecu and suspension to be really
the car it tries to be...... although being very nice!

 

[JaySee]

Hi Guys (writing from Finland)

I think this conversation is totally unneeded because we are talking about
two totally different kind of cars. I do not have experience from Nissan,
but did considered it when choosing my new car. However, to me Nissan wasn`t
something I liked, nor needed in these harsh conditions with 6 months of
slush and snow.... so you already know what I chose ;-)

But seriously, I mean, talking about turbo or non-turbo, is really stupid.
If STI has turbo and 265hp so what.... do you compare the car with Nissan
and allow you to speculate "well, if the Nissan would have one it would..."
yes but it doesnt have it, so thats it.

I think its needless to say, but for me the biggest reason for choosing
Subaru was its excellent 4 wheels drive technique, performance and a
reasonable price (well, you pay lot less and earn lot more in general in
USA) and ability to cope with mentioned conditions. Here, Nissan would be
summer season car, but understandably not the same situation there (at least
in some parts of USA). I believe you speculated the rest of the reasong
already (maybe these one as well) so I rest my case for now.

Pay a lot less and earn a lot more in US? The former might be true,
but not the latter. Cost of living in the US is substantially larger
than anywhere else in the world. A dollar here doesn't go as far as a
dollar there.

Btw, I chose WRX, because it lacks the "too rallylike" looks and is very
close in performance vise the STI, being 15.000 dollars less. STI is also a
car that needs serious changes in exhaust, ecu and suspension to be really
the car it tries to be...... although being very nice!

Not touching that with a 30 ft pole. =P

 

[Ignignokt]

The sleeper is the exact opposite of Rice Boy.

Rice Boy adds wings, decals, removes one wiper, paints the mirrors
yellow, etc... to his 105 HP Civic, to make it look fast.

The sleeper _is_ fast. To me it's the automotive version of a person
with self esteem. <G>

As seems to be my style, I took a 48-word thought and condensed it into 254
words.

- Greg