WRX hates Reverse

[MikeL]

My '05 WRX (stateside model) has just over 2,500 miles on it; about 1.5
months old. Recently I've noticed that it refuses to go into reverse right
away when started up, even if warm (then again, the only real time I use
Reverse is after starting up and backing out of the drive).

Nonetheless, to get into R I usually have to pump the clutch a few times or
go into another (usually first, for convenience sake) gear beforehand and
then it glides into reverse no problemo. Otherwise you just pull and pull
and pull and it will only go 1/2-way into reverse.

1. Is this normal? I doubt it.... (Warranty time I guess?)
2. Would the Kartboy bushings have anything to do with this? Do they effect
the warranty?
3. Could I have overtightened something in the kartboy install to make this
harder?

Mike

 

[David Betts]

My '05 WRX (stateside model) has just over 2,500 miles on it; about 1.5
months old. Recently I've noticed that it refuses to go into reverse right
away when started up, even if warm (then again, the only real time I use
Reverse is after starting up and backing out of the drive).

Nonetheless, to get into R I usually have to pump the clutch a few times or
go into another (usually first, for convenience sake) gear beforehand and
then it glides into reverse no problemo. Otherwise you just pull and pull
and pull and it will only go 1/2-way into reverse.

1. Is this normal?

Yes. You appear to have found the solution, which is to pump the
clutch a couple of times and to come 'round the corner' from 1st or
4th. I've always assumed it is the detent to prevent accidentally
snicking reverse on the way down from 5th which makes engagement
baulky. Nothing to worry about, anyway.

David Betts
(e-mail address removed)

 

[NitroTrike]

Subject: WRX hates Reverse

From: "MikeL" mlloyd@@alumni.usc.edu
Date: 9/2/2004 1:19 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <ch66vt$5gk$(e-mail address removed)>

My '05 WRX (stateside model) has just over 2,500 miles on it; about 1.5
months old. Recently I've noticed that it refuses to go into reverse right
away when started up, even if warm (then again, the only real time I use
Reverse is after starting up and backing out of the drive).

Nonetheless, to get into R I usually have to pump the clutch a few times or
go into another (usually first, for convenience sake) gear beforehand and
then it glides into reverse no problemo. Otherwise you just pull and pull
and pull and it will only go 1/2-way into reverse.

1. Is this normal? I doubt it.... (Warranty time I guess?)
2. Would the Kartboy bushings have anything to do with this? Do they effect
the warranty?
3. Could I have overtightened something in the kartboy install to make this
harder?

Mike



My 2002 has been doing that from day 1, now has 75k on it. Seems to do it alot

less after changing to Lucas oil. Maybe if subaru didnt use 50 pound (kidding)
clutch disk on it, it wouldnt have so much momentum (hense the gringing in
reverse) Does yours gring into 2nd too?

 

[FNO]

My '05 WRX (stateside model) has just over 2,500 miles on it; about 1.5
months old. Recently I've noticed that it refuses to go into reverse right
away when started up, even if warm (then again, the only real time I use
Reverse is after starting up and backing out of the drive).

Nonetheless, to get into R I usually have to pump the clutch a few times or
go into another (usually first, for convenience sake) gear beforehand and
then it glides into reverse no problemo. Otherwise you just pull and pull
and pull and it will only go 1/2-way into reverse.

1. Is this normal? I doubt it.... (Warranty time I guess?)
2. Would the Kartboy bushings have anything to do with this? Do they effect
the warranty?
3. Could I have overtightened something in the kartboy install to make this
harder?

Mike

Yup. There is no sychro in reverse (its why the car has to be fully stopped
before you put in reverse, or the thing will grind like hell). They also
put a protection mechanism in it, so you can't accidently grab reverse when
you are downshifting. The Kartboy bushings might exacerbate the problem,
but it is already there anyway, and you are doing what you need too; find
another gear and pump the clutch a bit and you'll be good to go.

 

[Skweezieweezie]

It sounds exactly like the way you have to
coax the M22 Muncie in my 70 Chevelle
into reverse.....

 

[Ignignokt]

Yes. You appear to have found the solution, which is to pump the
clutch a couple of times and to come 'round the corner' from 1st or
4th. I've always assumed it is the detent to prevent accidentally
snicking reverse on the way down from 5th which makes engagement
baulky. Nothing to worry about, anyway.

David Betts
(e-mail address removed)

It has something to do with reverse being a non-synchromeshed gear. If you
try to engage reverse when the gear teeth aren't alight to mesh together,
the outer edges of the teeth will hit each other and prevent reverse from
engaging. When you select a synchromeshed gear (like all the forward
gears), the synchromesh mechanism will rotate the transmission's lay shaft
just enough to permit the gears to mesh rather than bounce off one another.
Bumping the clutch serves exactly the same purpose: It rotates the lay
shaft, though using this method is more random than selecting a forward
gear -- the lay shaft might still wind up misaligned and prevent engagement
of reverse.

It's perfectly normal -- and it sounds like my own tranny is far more
difficult than either of yours, since mine often refuses to engage reverse
even after first selecting a forward gear. I often find myself in the
driveway going "reverse? Nope. First -- reverse? Nope. Fourth --
reverse? Nope. Bump clutch -- reverse? Nope. Hell with it! Bump clutch
while pulling back into reverse -- <grind> There it is!!

- Greg Reed

 

[ceraboy]

My '05 WRX (stateside model) has just over 2,500 miles on it; about
1.5 months old. Recently I've noticed that it refuses to go into
reverse right away when started up, even if warm (then again, the
only real time I use Reverse is after starting up and backing out of
the drive).

Nonetheless, to get into R I usually have to pump the clutch a few
times or go into another (usually first, for convenience sake) gear
beforehand and then it glides into reverse no problemo. Otherwise
you just pull and pull and pull and it will only go 1/2-way into
reverse.

1. Is this normal? I doubt it.... (Warranty time I guess?)
2. Would the Kartboy bushings have anything to do with this? Do they
effect the warranty?
3. Could I have overtightened something in the kartboy install to
make this harder?

Mike

While this is a problem in most manual transmissions, it does seem a
bit excessive in your case. Indeed first gear and reverse are seldom
if never syncromeshed, particularly reverse. Instead of pumping the
clutch you might try easing the car forward in second gear which will
synchronize the driving and driven gears right before you shift to
reverse. You might also try a premium synthetic lubricant. I found
that Mobil 1 synthetic gear lube solved most of my harsh shift
problems. Your could even try the more premium lubes such as Amsoil as
well.

 

[Henry Paul]

That problem developed in my Impreza right after I changed the tranny oil. I
suspect a different oil might help as you suggest.
Where did you get your Mobil 1 gear lube?

 

[Byron]

My '05 WRX (stateside model) has just over 2,500 miles on it; about

It has something to do with reverse being a non-synchromeshed gear. If you
try to engage reverse when the gear teeth aren't alight to mesh together,
the outer edges of the teeth will hit each other and prevent reverse from
engaging. When you select a synchromeshed gear (like all the forward
gears), the synchromesh mechanism will rotate the transmission's lay shaft
just enough to permit the gears to mesh rather than bounce off one another.
Bumping the clutch serves exactly the same purpose: It rotates the lay
shaft, though using this method is more random than selecting a forward
gear -- the lay shaft might still wind up misaligned and prevent engagement
of reverse.

It's perfectly normal -- and it sounds like my own tranny is far more
difficult than either of yours, since mine often refuses to engage reverse
even after first selecting a forward gear. I often find myself in the
driveway going "reverse? Nope. First -- reverse? Nope. Fourth --
reverse? Nope. Bump clutch -- reverse? Nope. Hell with it! Bump clutch
while pulling back into reverse -- <grind> There it is!!

- Greg Reed

I have pretty good luck switching to 1st gear, driving forward less than
an inch, and then engaging reverse. This often works for me even if I
had pulled into my parking spot in 1st gear. Half the time reverse
works on the 1st try, the other half I need to use my drive forward trick.

That may be what you meant by 'bump clutch' but I've never heard that
term, so apologies if you've already tried it.

I've seen this on a '84 Toyota, '90 Honda, '95 VW, '01 VW, and my
current '02 WRX. To me it's very normal for the reasons stated by others.

 

[CompUser]

You might also try a premium synthetic lubricant. I found
that Mobil 1 synthetic gear lube solved most of my harsh shift
problems. Your could even try the more premium lubes such as Amsoil as
well.

A lot of folks find the tranny problems
exaggerated by use of synth oils. Synchros don't
like slippery, and synthetics are.

 

[ceraboy]

A lot of folks find the tranny problems
exaggerated by use of synth oils. Synchros don't
like slippery, and synthetics are.

On the contrary I have found that most people find that tranny problems
are diminished with the synthetics. In the end there are a lot of
variables and every case is a bit different. I know some premium gear
lubes (Redline comes to mind) come in varieties with and without
friction modifiers for limited slip differentials. Im not sure if that
will help the synchro's, but I throw it out there.

 

[Henry Paul]

I am running dino right now and I have a terrible time with 1st and reverse.
I'm ready to try a synth to see if it helps any.

 

[Ignignokt]

I have pretty good luck switching to 1st gear, driving forward less
than an inch, and then engaging reverse. This often works for me
even if I had pulled into my parking spot in 1st gear. Half the time
reverse works on the 1st try, the other half I need to use my drive
forward trick.
That may be what you meant by 'bump clutch' but I've never heard that
term, so apologies if you've already tried it.

I've seen this on a '84 Toyota, '90 Honda, '95 VW, '01 VW, and my
current '02 WRX. To me it's very normal for the reasons stated by
others.

I'll try your "drive forward" method. Hadn't heard of it and never thought
to try it on my own, but I can see where it might work. And by "bump
clutch" I was talking about briefly disengaging the clutch with the car in
neutral -- spins the transmission's lay shaft but not the output shaft(s)
because no gear is selected.

- Greg Reed

 

[Chris Phillipo]

gear -- the lay shaft might still wind up misaligned and prevent engagement
of reverse.

It's perfectly normal -- and it sounds like my own tranny is far more
difficult than either of yours, since mine often refuses to engage reverse
even after first selecting a forward gear. I often find myself in the
driveway going "reverse? Nope. First -- reverse? Nope. Fourth --
reverse? Nope. Bump clutch -- reverse? Nope. Hell with it! Bump clutch
while pulling back into reverse -- <grind> There it is!!

- Greg Reed

The one in my Rav4 is the same, I like to tell people it makes it seem
more like a rally car, have you ever seen a PWRC driver trying to find
reverse in a hurry?

 

[Henry Paul]

Yeah same here. I think grinding isn't as bad as just yanking it until it
goes in. Oh well.

 

[ceraboy]

I am running dino right now and I have a terrible time with 1st and
reverse. I'm ready to try a synth to see if it helps any.

You can pick up a decent synthetic gear lube at your local auto parts
store for around 5 - 8 bucks per quart. I have had good success with
Mobil 1 75w-90 that I get from Schucks Auto Parts up here in the
pacific northwest. Even Wal-mart will carry some brand name synthetic
gear lubes. Make sure you dont overfill the differential and get your
car nice and hot to get that dino juice out.

 

[Rob Munach]

A lot of folks find the tranny problems
exaggerated by use of synth oils. Synchros don't
like slippery, and synthetics are.

Try redline MT90. It makes the synchs grab much better than stock.

-rm

 

[CompUser]

@news.cle.sbcglobal.net>, (e-mail address removed)
says...

On the contrary I have found that most people find that tranny problems
are diminished with the synthetics. In the end there are a lot of
variables and every case is a bit different. I know some premium gear
lubes (Redline comes to mind) come in varieties with and without
friction modifiers for limited slip differentials. Im not sure if that
will help the synchro's, but I throw it out there.

Spend a few hours looking thru the gear oil posts
over on NASIOC, and you find synthetic seems to
return about a 50/50 split. Soem love it, some
initially love it, but then come back and post
that the "grind is back and worse than with
dino".

Anything that reduces friction give the synchros
less to work with. Good for bearings, and
synchro grind.

 

[ceraboy]

@news.cle.sbcglobal.net>, (e-mail address removed)
says...

Spend a few hours looking thru the gear oil posts
over on NASIOC, and you find synthetic seems to
return about a 50/50 split. Soem love it, some
initially love it, but then come back and post
that the "grind is back and worse than with
dino".

Anything that reduces friction give the synchros
less to work with. Good for bearings, and
synchro grind.

Particularly problematic transmissions may require synthetics
formulated for synchromeshed systems.

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/redtech4.htm

 

[CompUser]

Particularly problematic transmissions may require synthetics
formulated for synchromeshed systems.

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/redtech4.htm

Good reading.

Some folks like synchromesh fluid for this, go
figure.