Why did I buy a used Subaru?

J

JCF

Someone please tell me.

In late July, I bought a used 99 Outback Wagon, manual transmission, higher
mileage, 120K. I didn't pay a lot for it, but having bought it from a
dealer who stated that the vehicle had been thoroughly checked, I assumed
that I had made a decent, at least moderately reliable, purchase.

Two days after purchase, I noticed the temp gauge climbing. No engine
light, but after driving it a bit, I opened the hood, and the coolant was
boiling. Dealer towed it, said the head gasket was blown and there was
piston damage. They towed and repaired at no charge. Good.

Four weeks later, the engine starts sputtering and the check engine light
comes on. Since the dealer is 40 miles away, I take it to my local
mechanic, who has serviced other cars for me over a 10 year period and in
whom I have a lot of trust. My mechanic says the engine light came from a
problem with the cam, that the crank had jumped three teeth and that it
looked like there could be engine damage, all effects which would have been
consistent with an inappropriately-performed gasket replacement. At this
point, the car is out of the 30-day, 1000 mile dealer service period (even
with the car being in the shop for a week with the gasket issue; also I have
1050 miles on total). But I call the dealer, they tow it and instead feel
that the problem was caused by a tensioning wheel. No evidence of engine
damage, they say. They offer to split the repair cost, which I think is
fair, and offer to drive it a bit.

Three days later, the repair is done. Then I get a call with, "Oh by the
way, the clutch is slipping and you're going to need to replace that."

Now, I don't expect a higher mileage used car to run like a new one. I
anticipate having repairs to a used car. Brakes will go, clutches, pumps
and all that. But I find it amazing that I have now had two significant
engine repairs, and the clutch is on the way out, within six weeks of
purchase. The dealer clearly stated that the car had been looked over
carefully before I purchased it, and, of course, touted the service
department. Am I unreasonable to think that some of these issues should
have been obvious if they did indeed look over the car carefully? Should
any of this, or could any of these potential issues have been disclosed
prior to purchase?

I am one unhappy Subaru owner who now walks to work every day. Thanks in
advance for your replies.... cars are not my specialty.
 
JCF said:
I am one unhappy Subaru owner who now walks to work every day. Thanks in
advance for your replies.... cars are not my specialty.

I have learned the same lesson with my first Subaru:
Never EVER buy a used Subaru. Usually someone milked one for good
and dumped it onto someone else to pay for expensive repairs.
 
JCF said:
Should any of this, or could any of these potential issues have been
disclosed prior to purchase?

Hi,

Sorry your experience hasn't been good, but one must remember used cars
are a "buyer beware" item. Some states' laws may require disclosure of
"known" problems, but that's not universal practice.

Probably the most important question I ask when looking at a used car is
"Why did the previous owner want to replace it?"

With luck, these problems will soon be resolved and you'll become a
happier Subie owner.

Rick
 
Rick Courtright said:
Hi,

Sorry your experience hasn't been good, but one must remember used cars
are a "buyer beware" item. Some states' laws may require disclosure of
"known" problems, but that's not universal practice.

Probably the most important question I ask when looking at a used car is
"Why did the previous owner want to replace it?"

With luck, these problems will soon be resolved and you'll become a
happier Subie owner.

Rick

Thanks for the response. I certainly hope it gets better, because the car
itself, when it works, is awesome. Stable, responsive, a pleasure to drive.

In my case, the car I bought was billed by the dealer as "a trade that the
previous Owner made to buy a new Outback. We usually don't sell high
mileage cars, but this one was exceptionally clean....all the maintenance
has been done." Buyer beware, I know. On one hand, I am thankful I bought
from a dealer because, in an effort to keep their reputation intact, they
performed some extensive repairs that they had not counted on; if I had
bought privately, I would be SOL. On the other hand, I question whether
they bought a piece of junk, couldn't figure that out or knew it and then
tried to pass it off onto the next buyer.

I'll have to look into the disclosure laws, and at the very least, will be
writing a terse letter to the dealer.
 
Sorry to hear about your troubles. It should be said that any used car
in general, let it be BMW, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Ferrari, you need to
be weary of it's condition, past maintenance history, etc.
 
Next time you buy used you may want to consider a "certified" used
vehicle with a reasonable warranty like 4y/60K miles and a no or small
deductible.
 
JCF said:
Thanks for the response. I certainly hope it gets better, because the car
itself, when it works, is awesome. Stable, responsive, a pleasure to drive.

In my case, the car I bought was billed by the dealer as "a trade that the
previous Owner made to buy a new Outback. We usually don't sell high
mileage cars, but this one was exceptionally clean....all the maintenance
has been done." Buyer beware, I know. On one hand, I am thankful I bought
from a dealer because, in an effort to keep their reputation intact, they
performed some extensive repairs that they had not counted on; if I had
bought privately, I would be SOL. On the other hand, I question whether
they bought a piece of junk, couldn't figure that out or knew it and then
tried to pass it off onto the next buyer.

I'll have to look into the disclosure laws, and at the very least, will be
writing a terse letter to the dealer.

Other than the HG, which Soobs of that model range are known to
occasinally have problems with, I don't think your experience is unique
either to the car or the dealership. I could argue that it would've been
nice to know if the TB was seviced on schedule and if the clutch was
original - but really, you could substitute the word toyota, or mazda or
Ford for subaru in your story and I bet it has happened a dozen times to
someone else. I think also, because folks tend to keep their Soobs
around longer, even dealerships are so hungry to be able to offer used
models they tend to keep cars that, if a similar condition used Ford
showed up, they would send it to the wholesaler. I must say though, it
seems your dealership was fair.
Ask questions here, look around at www.ultimatesubaru.net and
www.nasioc.com and learn about your car. It will likely be very
enjoyable now and hopefully, when you need a new O2 sensor or MAF or
rear wheel bearings, you won't be surprised and might be able to fix
some of them yourself.

Carl
 
Body Roll said:
I have learned the same lesson with my first Subaru:
Never EVER buy a used Subaru. Usually someone milked one for good
and dumped it onto someone else to pay for expensive repairs.


There is no difference between Subies and any other make. LOTS of
consumers simply dispose of their vehicles after 2 to 3 years.
Doesn't matter what is the mileage, low or high. Doesn't matter what
is the condition, good or bad. They've been taught or somehow
contrued that after a few years that they should get a brand new car
because the old one will start having problems soon, whether or not it
shows any problems at all when they decide to get rid of it. It's
their form of preventative maintenance provided they can afford to
lose all that depreciation in the car's value over the front-end
heavily weighted reduction period. Also, many can afford their whim
of getting a new car because they are simply bored with the old one,
like folks that buy different clothes on each shopping spree. That's
great for the rest of us that like those dupes to eat up the most
depreciation of the vehicle and do all the initial repairs and tweaks
for new cars.

Regardless of what the dealer says, even if they claim to have ASE
certified mechanics, I still take the prospective purchase to my own
auto shop which also employs ASE mechanics (and ALL of them at the
auto shop are also master mechanics). If I genuinely am interested in
a particular car, I take it in to pay the $100, or so, to have it
fully inspected. That doesn't guarantee that all hidden problems
become revealed just because the dealer's and auto shop's mechanics
all inspected it but it gives an assurance level for the condition of
the vehicle.
 
When you buy a used car you buy someone else's troubles. Buy new next
time. A new kia is better than USED MERCEDES
 
Lets look at the Logic here (or lack of it)......
While there are exceptions to most any rule, Anytime a person trades
in/sells/dumps/walks away from a vehicle there is a serious problem.
You all know the buyer of a vehicle takes the hardest "hit/loss" in the
first few years of ownership.So WHY would someone want to sell a
1/2/3 year old vehicle?WHY would they want to take a financial loss like
that?
I have seen some legit reasons....some of them are.....
*Relocation...cost a fortune to ship a car overseas or hawaii.Better to sell
it off and buy when you get there.
*Growing family, need a minivan due to kids or.......
*Divorce...vehicle was purchased when married and now has to be
liquidated....
* Estate sale...owner died, next of kin is selling the vehicle...
*Lease return..could be good, USUALLY bad.Let's face it..if it was SO damn
good why trade it in? Most people that lease write off the first
three years of payments as a biz expense right?.Then you re-fi the car or
buy it outright before the Lease runs out.Most lease returns are high-miles,
problem children that have demonstrated that they will be a pain in the ass
for the rest of their service life.NO ONE wants a car that blows the head
gasket whenever it damn well feels like it.In the three years you lease
it..you learn all about the car intimately.If it's a complete
piece of shit you turn it in at 3 years.
If it's been a GOOD car..you buy it off below market value.So whats REALLY
up with these used 1/2/3 year old Subarus?

Here are some BAD reasons......
*Subaru's blow head gaskets, like humans fart....
*Subaru's cooling system is a joke at best....
*Subaru is NOT a "Do it Yourself" car for the weekend mechanic...
*Subaru's have more than their share of failures EARLY in life....
*Subaru's have poor resale value, are a "Niche" car......
*Some finance companies wont lend money on them....
*While they are a fun car to drive, it's like owning a "MG" or "Fiat"...fun
when it runs...
* Subaru's get POOR fuel mileage for size of the vehicle.
*THE BIG REASON*
Subaru of America has been (pick one or more) FUCKING/SCREWING/RIPPING
OFF/CHEATING more customers than it can ever
realize.NEVER have I ever heard of someone taking their Subaru to a dealer
and not getting hit with additional crap...
They hear they need new this..and that..flush this..flush that..tune up
this...adjust that. Of course this can ONLY be done at the dealer..
Now mind you...this is not only happening at Subaru! VW is just as bad.
This is NOT the "Norm" for a Japanese car thats been around for a while.Do
the vehicles from Fuji Heavy Industry fall apart like this?
We all EXPECT this kind of crap from "EUROJUNK" cars (VW/Mercedes/BMW).
Subaru had better wake up. They are a minority car company these days,
especially in a region where all-wheel drive is not a daily requirement
 
Lets look at the Logic here (or lack of it)......
While there are exceptions to most any rule, Anytime a person trades
in/sells/dumps/walks away from a vehicle there is a serious problem.
You all know the buyer of a vehicle takes the hardest "hit/loss" in the
first few years of ownership.So WHY would someone want to sell a
1/2/3 year old vehicle?WHY would they want to take a financial loss like
that?

Because people buying new cars are not necessarily making a logical
decision. Because people buying new cars may have more money than you,
and therefore aren't as concerned with that dollar difference. Because
people buying new cars are often buying them for the perceived features
(bigger engine, better AWD, etc), not because there's anything
objectively "wrong" with their old car. Because people have different
priorities, and some people may put "shiny new car" at a higher priority
than you do.

In short, because there's a lot more to a purchase than pure logic, as
car dealers and any other salespeople have known since roughly the
dawn of time.
 
Many suckers will pay like new prices for a used car. I have kept my
last two new cars for eight years and enjoyed years of payment free
driving. However when a huge repair hit is on the horizon I dump the
car and buy a new one. I would like to keep my 04 OBW for 200k miles
but if I see a yellow 4 door Wrangler the subie may have to go sooner.
 
Are we talking US or Japanese Subarus?
I've been driving Subarus for 11 years....all
Japanese here in the UK. That's one of the first Impreza
Turbos, a Forester Turbo Sport and currently an Impreza
WRX which I have bought off the lease.
Problems with 3 cars = 1...the WRX clutch shudder...
new clutch and flywheel replaced no charge and that's it.
No HG/cooling system problems etc.
As for fuel...what do you expect with AWD?
And if a WRX etc do you even care about fuel consumption?
Subarus in the UK enjoy a very good residual value and finance
companies could care less it's a Subaru.
Subaru consistently come high in the JD Powers polls and
have come top on at least one occasion and have an excellent
reputation for reliability...unlike the Euro heavyweight names.
The dealer I use is superb which is partly why I've stuck
with Subaru all this time...not cheap...like any main dealer...
but always a first class job and no hidden extras.
Oh and it's a great car to drive.
Your mileage across the Pond clearly does vary from the UK.
I wonder why?

Clive Norris
Managing Director
Selectron (UK) Ltd
www.espguitars.co.uk
www.espshop.co.uk
www.mightymite.com
www.emgpickups.co.uk
www.tube-shop.com
www.whirlwindusa.com
www.deanmarkley.com
 
Monique said:
Because people buying new cars are not necessarily making a logical
decision. Because people buying new cars may have more money than you,
and therefore aren't as concerned with that dollar difference. Because
people buying new cars are often buying them for the perceived features
(bigger engine, better AWD, etc), not because there's anything
objectively "wrong" with their old car. Because people have different
priorities, and some people may put "shiny new car" at a higher priority
than you do.
I bought outback zerosport 2005 solely because of the terrible
reliability with 92 legacy.
I loved 92 legacy and hated it's reliability.
I hate 05 obs but like it's reliability (heck, I still have 20k+ miles
of warranty left, so
it'd better behave).
I won't buy a used Evo (or any other half decent car for that matter)
used though either.
If I need to save money on a used car I'd buy some used docile piece of
shit
that deprecated to the point where it's a "good value".
Like Taurus or 500 and have it inspected to make sure the owner was
about
to die of boredom rather than of a heart attach after seeing a quote
for a repair bill.
Why buy an old used complex car like Outback? It will fall apart in
expensive ways.
In short, because there's a lot more to a purchase than pure logic, as

Right. A lot more. In my case stupidity was a big part of it.
 
Lets look at the Logic here (or lack of it)......
While there are exceptions to most any rule, Anytime a person trades
in/sells/dumps/walks away from a vehicle there is a serious problem.
You all know the buyer of a vehicle takes the hardest "hit/loss" in the
first few years of ownership.So WHY would someone want to sell a
1/2/3 year old vehicle?WHY would they want to take a financial loss like
that?

I disagree. I have traded in used cars while buying a new car three times.
Two out of the three times, the car was in perfect working order. I traded
because my needs had changed and the car I was trading still retained some
value which could be applied to a new car.

In this case, I started my own business last year. I am an architectural
consultant, and occasionally need to carry ladders and other testing
equipment which do not go in and out of a sedan easily. Furthermore, while
business has been successful beyond my expectations, I did not feel that it
would be financially responsible to spend $20-25,000 on a new vehicle in the
business' name. I also have a newborn son, and so a pickup truck in which
he couldn't fit is not an option.
They hear they need new this..and that..flush this..flush that..tune up
this...adjust that. Of course this can ONLY be done at the dealer..
Now mind you...this is not only happening at Subaru! VW is just as bad.
This is NOT the "Norm" for a Japanese car thats been around for a while.Do
the vehicles from Fuji Heavy Industry fall apart like this?
We all EXPECT this kind of crap from "EUROJUNK" cars (VW/Mercedes/BMW).
Subaru had better wake up. They are a minority car company these days,
especially in a region where all-wheel drive is not a daily requirement

If you're like me, you do some research on the make, model and year of any
car before buying. In my case, that included talking to my mechanic, doing
a carfax search for the VIN and looking at the consumer reports data (which
gave generally very good reports on most major systems for this model and
year). Seriously, are you going to go into google groups and type the make,
model, year and every single issue that could eventually arise, from brakes
to engine to gasket, to other things. Before last week I had never even
heard of the term "tensioning wheel."

On the eurojunk comment, I have two VWs, a 99 Jetta and an 02 Passat with a
combined 190,000 miles on them. 11 years+ of ownership and not a single
significant problem. Normal wear and tear, brakes, tires and such, that's
it. Perhaps my experience is not typical.
 
Just to follow up on my original post, in case anyone is interested.

Late yesterday I spoke to my sales rep, who referred my call to the
dealership's general manager this morning. The dealership is concerned
about my dissatisfaction and has asked for an opportunity to look over the
car once more, have their service manager drive it, etc., and then work
either towards another repair or to "get me into a comparable vehicle."
There is a long way to go between here and there, but at this point, it is
the best I can hope for.

Again, it has been a bad experience, but I am so thankful that at least I am
working with a dealer, and that the dealer has been cooperative in
attempting to address my concerns.
 
JCF said:
I disagree. I have traded in used cars while buying a new car three times.
Two out of the three times, the car was in perfect working order. I traded
because my needs had changed and the car I was trading still retained some
value which could be applied to a new car.

In this case, I started my own business last year. I am an architectural
consultant, and occasionally need to carry ladders and other testing
equipment which do not go in and out of a sedan easily. Furthermore, while
business has been successful beyond my expectations, I did not feel that it
would be financially responsible to spend $20-25,000 on a new vehicle in the
business' name. I also have a newborn son, and so a pickup truck in which
he couldn't fit is not an option.




If you're like me, you do some research on the make, model and year of any
car before buying. In my case, that included talking to my mechanic, doing
a carfax search for the VIN and looking at the consumer reports data (which
gave generally very good reports on most major systems for this model and
year). Seriously, are you going to go into google groups and type the make,
model, year and every single issue that could eventually arise, from brakes
to engine to gasket, to other things. Before last week I had never even
heard of the term "tensioning wheel."

On the eurojunk comment, I have two VWs, a 99 Jetta and an 02 Passat with a
combined 190,000 miles on them. 11 years+ of ownership and not a single
significant problem. Normal wear and tear, brakes, tires and such, that's
it. Perhaps my experience is not typical.

Yeah, I bought a car for my daughter that was treaded in because a
school teacher was being given a new car for xmas by her husband. Not
all cars traded in have issues. And many that do, are easily repaired.
Some folks just get int eh mindset "Ugh, the CEL light came on TWICE
this year! We better dump this car!" And maybe it just needs a front O2
sensor and a new evap system vacuum line or something.

Carl
 
In late July, I bought a used 99 Outback Wagon, manual transmission, higher
mileage, 120K.

I don't know what you expected buying a car with that many miles on
it.
 

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