Wet snow

[Yousuf Khan]

Well a new situation that I didn't face last winter. Last winter there was
powder snow and freezing rain. This winter we've had some wet snow days, and
thick accumalating wet snow at that too. Got into situations in this stuff
that I've never experienced before, even worse than freezing rain in some
cases. For example, I've had the rear try to stick itself out in a big way
around low-speed 90 degree turns, wherever there is a bit of this wet snow
in that corner. I'm driving a 2000 OBW 5-speed manual, with the viscous
coupled centre and rear differentials. Now I'm starting wonder if maybe the
VDC electronic traction control wouldn't have been also useful in this
situation. Until now, these viscous coupled diffs seemed infallible.

Just another Subaru moment.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Alan]

Had the same problem with my OBW AT on the same surface. I was taking a 90
degree left turn a bit too fast, plus the road sloped to the outside of the
curve, so the rear end slid to the right. I just powered up slowly and it
pulled out. I believe that VDC is made for this circumstance, but you lose
out on straightaways due to the lack of the viscous limited slip diff.

AWD is tricky on turns. FWD is probably a little better in that the rear
will just follow the front - eventually. In AWD the front is pulling, but
the rear wants some say in the matter as well. I reasoned that the front had
more say in the matter and adding a bit of power would fix the situation,
and it did- but it took a few seconds. Worked out okay as no one else was to
the right of me.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Had the same problem with my OBW AT on the same surface. I was taking a 90
degree left turn a bit too fast, plus the road sloped to the outside of the
curve, so the rear end slid to the right. I just powered up slowly and it
pulled out. I believe that VDC is made for this circumstance, but you lose
out on straightaways due to the lack of the viscous limited slip diff.

AWD is tricky on turns. FWD is probably a little better in that the rear
will just follow the front - eventually. In AWD the front is pulling, but
the rear wants some say in the matter as well. I reasoned that the front had
more say in the matter and adding a bit of power would fix the situation,
and it did- but it took a few seconds. Worked out okay as no one else was to
the right of me.

You know this reminds me heavily of RWD behaviour actually. These sort of
oversteering dramatics were commonplace on RWD vehicles. So it looks like
the RWD subpersonality of AWD asserting itself in these cases.

For me instead of applying power, what fixed it was to reduce power. Of
course, I got the OBW MT, which behaves a bit differently to the OBW AT,
since it has a different AWD system.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Cam Penner]

@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
(e-mail address removed) says...

You know this reminds me heavily of RWD behaviour actually. These sort of
oversteering dramatics were commonplace on RWD vehicles. So it looks like
the RWD subpersonality of AWD asserting itself in these cases.

For me instead of applying power, what fixed it was to reduce power. Of
course, I got the OBW MT, which behaves a bit differently to the OBW AT,
since it has a different AWD system.

With AWD you get both the behaviours of FWD and RWD at the
same time (and to a smaller degree). In wet snow, turning
a corner too hard under power will produce both understeer
at the front wheels and oversteer at the rear. It will
understeer less than FWD in the same situation, and the
back will oversteer less than RWD in the same situation.

It IS a very different feeling having both ends of the car
loose at the same time, but once you get used to it, really
quite fun. Having the back rotate actually helps correct
the front from understeer, and having the front understeer
helps keep the back from getting too far out of line.

If I'm only mildly sliding, I find that simply holding the
throttle steady offers the best recovery, as the car tends
to recover itself nicely. The best thing to do though is
to find a big empty parking lot and try different things so
you're not surprised in real life.

 

[Rodrigo Diaz]

Just don't eat yellow snow!

 

[Alan]

Empty parking lot practice is a good idea. All I need now is snow (Bucks
County, PA)


"Cam Penner"

 

[J999w]

Find a safe place to practice and slowly apply power in different slides.
Perhaps accelerating slowly will transfer enough weight to the rear wheels to
buy you some additional traction.

Provided you've got nice snow tires on there !

:^]

jw
milwaukee

 

[Ron Joiner]

And don't go where the huskies go.......

Just don't eat yellow snow!



message news:2pnEb.13502$(e-mail address removed)...

 

[Tony Hwang]

Hi,
Whether there is snow or you have snow tires, rule #1 is adjust
your driving to weather/road condition. Every year, on first snow
fall, see this morons getting into dumb fender benders because they
did not follow rule #1. Even an army tank can slide and get stuck on the
road if driver does dumb thing.
Tony

Empty parking lot practice is a good idea. All I need now is snow (Bucks
County, PA)

@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
(e-mail address removed) says...

a 90

 

[al gu]

Hi,
Whether there is snow or you have snow tires, rule #1 is adjust
your driving to weather/road condition. Every year, on first snow
fall, see this morons getting into dumb fender benders because they
did not follow rule #1. Even an army tank can slide and get stuck on the
road if driver does dumb thing.
Tony

I set my cruise control to 140 during the first snow and passed everything
on the road.
new snow tires and a Subaru is the way to go .
no slip
no spin
acceleration is almost like a dry road
goodbye front wheel drive crap

))))

 

[Fuzzy Logic]

I set my cruise control to 140 during the first snow and passed everything
on the road.
new snow tires and a Subaru is the way to go .
no slip
no spin
acceleration is almost like a dry road
goodbye front wheel drive crap

))))

You're just lucky. There seems to be confusion about what AWD/4WD can do for
you. It certainly great for acceleration and traction in less than ideal
conditions but it's not going to help you when you hit a patch of ice and
need to stop in a hurry.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

You're just lucky. There seems to be confusion about what AWD/4WD can do for
you. It certainly great for acceleration and traction in less than ideal
conditions but it's not going to help you when you hit a patch of ice and
need to stop in a hurry.

The braking is the worst part of it all. You better hope your anti-locks
don't kick in some cases, otherwise, you might as well not even bother to
brake. In snow, you really want the wheels to lock up so that a wedge of
snow builds up under your tires.

Yousuf Khan