Trouble Starting 96 Subaru Outback Legacy and Moving out of Park

[Debbie]

Recently, my Subaru has had trouble starting. It will click, but not
turn over. I have had the battery, starter, and alternator checked at
Sears and they couldn't find a problem. I've done a diagnostics test
and it came clean. I've gone through about 3 batteries in the last
year and a half. I recently checked the battery myself and it is
holding a charge and is being charged by the alternator. What could be
causing this problem?

Also recently, after I am finally able to start it (after the 100th
turn of the key) the gear stick will not allow me to move it out of
park. It has gotten colder outside, but I don't think that should have
any bearing on it. I spoke to one of Subaru's service guys and he
thinks it is related to the alternator. The car has almost 117,000
miles on it and the alternator has been changed after a recall (a
little less then 10 years ago with it's previous owner).

I'm not sure if it is related to the other two problems, but it also
gets terrible gas milage, about 200-250 per tank where it should be
getting well over 300. I've changed the air filter, put additives in
my fuel to clean the system a little bit more, new tires...it had all
fluids flushed when I purchased it about 2 1/2 - 3 years ago, oil
changes are up to date, spark plugs and wires were changed a little
over a year ago.

If you know anything, help

 

[Ragnar]

Recently, my Subaru has had trouble starting. It will click, but not
turn over. I have had the battery, starter, and alternator checked at
Sears and they couldn't find a problem. I've done a diagnostics test
and it came clean. I've gone through about 3 batteries in the last
year and a half. I recently checked the battery myself and it is
holding a charge and is being charged by the alternator. What could be
causing this problem?

Also recently, after I am finally able to start it (after the 100th
turn of the key) the gear stick will not allow me to move it out of
park. It has gotten colder outside, but I don't think that should have
any bearing on it. I spoke to one of Subaru's service guys and he
thinks it is related to the alternator. The car has almost 117,000
miles on it and the alternator has been changed after a recall (a
little less then 10 years ago with it's previous owner).

I'm not sure if it is related to the other two problems, but it also
gets terrible gas milage, about 200-250 per tank where it should be
getting well over 300. I've changed the air filter, put additives in
my fuel to clean the system a little bit more, new tires...it had all
fluids flushed when I purchased it about 2 1/2 - 3 years ago, oil
changes are up to date, spark plugs and wires were changed a little
over a year ago.

If you know anything, help

Have you checked the air intake and emissions systems?

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Recently, my Subaru has had trouble starting. It will click, but not
turn over. I have had the battery, starter, and alternator checked at
Sears and they couldn't find a problem. I've done a diagnostics test
and it came clean. I've gone through about 3 batteries in the last
year and a half. I recently checked the battery myself and it is
holding a charge and is being charged by the alternator. What could be
causing this problem?

Also recently, after I am finally able to start it (after the 100th
turn of the key) the gear stick will not allow me to move it out of
park. It has gotten colder outside, but I don't think that should have
any bearing on it. I spoke to one of Subaru's service guys and he
thinks it is related to the alternator. The car has almost 117,000
miles on it and the alternator has been changed after a recall (a
little less then 10 years ago with it's previous owner).

I'm not sure if it is related to the other two problems, but it also
gets terrible gas milage, about 200-250 per tank where it should be
getting well over 300. I've changed the air filter, put additives in
my fuel to clean the system a little bit more, new tires...it had all
fluids flushed when I purchased it about 2 1/2 - 3 years ago, oil
changes are up to date, spark plugs and wires were changed a little
over a year ago.

If you know anything, help

Although I hesitate to make too many suggestions since a real mechanic
has examined the car, I'd suggest first that you likely have more than
one problem. I'd say the solenoid contatcs may be worn. While they can
be serviced, it's usually better to just get a new/rebuilt starter
installed. Dunno why a meachanic didn't suggest this.
Bad mileage can sometimes be due to an Engine Temp Sensor being bad.
Though other sensors (like front O2 sensor) could also be bad or 'lazy'.

Maybe take your car to another mechanic.

I dunno

Carl

 

[Debbie]

Although I hesitate to make too many suggestions since a real mechanic
has examined the car, I'd suggest first that you likely have more than
one problem. I'd say the solenoid contatcs may be worn. While they can
be serviced, it's usually better to just get a new/rebuilt starter
installed. Dunno why a meachanic didn't suggest this.
Bad mileage can sometimes be due to an Engine Temp Sensor being bad.
Though other sensors (like front O2 sensor) could also be bad or 'lazy'.

Maybe take your car to another mechanic.

I dunno

Carl

All the mechanics have done was to tighten up the battery terminals and
hook it up to a computer. Are the solenoid contacts inside of the
starter? Out of curiousity, what is their function? As far as the
Engine Temp Sensor, would the emissions test pick that up? It recently
passed. I had an Isuzu Rodeo that failed due to O2 sensors that were
afer market and I had to fight with Carmax to get them to pay for the
service since they sold me the car with the aftermarket parts. Thank
you for your advice.

 

[Debbie]

Have you checked the air intake and emissions systems?

I've changed the air filter and I'm assuming that the entire system is
clean since it passed emissions recently.

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

All the mechanics have done was to tighten up the battery terminals and
hook it up to a computer. Are the solenoid contacts inside of the
starter? Out of curiousity, what is their function? As far as the
Engine Temp Sensor, would the emissions test pick that up? It recently
passed. I had an Isuzu Rodeo that failed due to O2 sensors that were
afer market and I had to fight with Carmax to get them to pay for the
service since they sold me the car with the aftermarket parts. Thank
you for your advice.

If the non-starting symptoms are as follows;
turn key, hear a loud-ish click from engine compartment but engine not
turning and lights on dash or headlights etc. stay 'normal'; probably
the solenoid contacts are corroded/intermittent.
BUT, if the lights dim a LOT, probably the starter has intermittent
short. In either case - new starter is best. (there are rebuild kits for
most solenoids - but the labor would be the same as a new starter)

If different sypmtoms - well, tell us. Also, is the Check Engine Light on?

Oh, yes, there have been many people have bad Engine Temp Sensors with
no CEL codes.

Perhaps if you post the city you're in, someone can recommend a mechanic .

Carl

 

[Backfire Burrito=Skidmark]

All the mechanics have done was to tighten up the battery terminals and
hook it up to a computer. Are the solenoid contacts inside of the
starter? Out of curiousity, what is their function? As far as the
Engine Temp Sensor, would the emissions test pick that up? It recently
passed. I had an Isuzu Rodeo that failed due to O2 sensors that were
afer market and I had to fight with Carmax to get them to pay for the
service since they sold me the car with the aftermarket parts. Thank
you for your advice.

I *LOVE* these "guess and by golly" answers.

The PRIMARY cause of starting failures is in the starter and it's alignment
with the flywheel gear.If the nosepiece and or the bendix drive are too
tight they will not allow the gear on the end of the drive to mesh with the
flywheel.
When this happens the contacts will not engage the starter motor. This
problem will manifest itself as a mild "clank" or loud CLICK as the bendix
drive hits the edge of the wheel instead of meshing.
Have a GOOD mechanic check and see if your model of starter requires a
"Shim" to be installed between the nosepiece and the block.
When people replace their own starters they usually forget this Shim.If it
needs to be replaced a piece of metal about .010 inches will do the trick.

 

[strchild]

Sounds reasonable, Backfire, and I've often wondered myself if somehow the
gear teeth just weren't lining up, as I'm now on my 3rd Subaru that has
developed this starting difficulty. But I also wonder why would the starter
work fine without the shim for years, then all of a sudden develope an
intermittent, ever increasing need for the shim? I've had one of the
failing starters rebuilt, and it worked, for a week, then it was back to the
same clicking nonsense, so I grabbed a starter from the wrecking yard,
swapped in the new parts, and it too worked for about a week. What are the
chances the magnetic coil which pulls the plunger inside could be a source
of failure, as that's the one part I never replaced in the used starters?

~Brian

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Sounds reasonable, Backfire, and I've often wondered myself if somehow the
gear teeth just weren't lining up, as I'm now on my 3rd Subaru that has
developed this starting difficulty. But I also wonder why would the starter
work fine without the shim for years, then all of a sudden develope an
intermittent, ever increasing need for the shim? I've had one of the
failing starters rebuilt, and it worked, for a week, then it was back to the
same clicking nonsense, so I grabbed a starter from the wrecking yard,
swapped in the new parts, and it too worked for about a week. What are the
chances the magnetic coil which pulls the plunger inside could be a source
of failure, as that's the one part I never replaced in the used starters?

~Brian

because his guess MUST be better than mine.


Carl

 

[johninKY]

This applies to models older than yours but I suspect little if anything
was changed. The GL and Loyale models have no starter relay. Current
flows from the battery, through the ignition switch when in the crank
mode, and then to the statrter solenoid. When resistance builds up in
either the ignition switch or at the wiring harness connectors you end up
with the exact same problem you have because not enough current is making
it to the starter solenoid. Check the ignition switch for resistance and
inspect the ignition switch connectors. A simple test if you are not
afraid of electricity is to use a 10 or 12 guage wire to jump from the
positive post of the battery directly to the starter solenoid. If the
starter cranks over then the problem is either the ignition switch or its
wiring harness.

 

[Backfire Burrito=Skidmark]

Sounds reasonable, Backfire, and I've often wondered myself if somehow the
gear teeth just weren't lining up, as I'm now on my 3rd Subaru that has
developed this starting difficulty. But I also wonder why would the
starter work fine without the shim for years, then all of a sudden
develope an intermittent, ever increasing need for the shim? I've had one
of the failing starters rebuilt, and it worked, for a week, then it was
back to the same clicking nonsense, so I grabbed a starter from the
wrecking yard, swapped in the new parts, and it too worked for about a
week. What are the chances the magnetic coil which pulls the plunger
inside could be a source of failure, as that's the one part I never
replaced in the used starters?

The "Solenoid" portion usually is trouble free.The magnetic coil and large
"slug" it pulls to engage the bendix rarely fail.The contacts are hit by the
disk when the cslug bottoms out,making sure the drive gear/clutch assembly
is firmly meshed before the motor begins to crank....
While those contacts DO fail due to burnt offerings or contamination..the
magnetic coil usually continues to work.
The failure mode is when the end bearing on the starter gets sloppy and the
end of the Bendix gear strikes the edge of the flywheel instead of meshing
with the teeth on the gear. If the voltage to the solenoid is low for any
reason it WILL NOT pull in.If you hear a mechanical "tick" or "Clank" from
the starter..it's the missing shim or tired bearing in the starter
motor.Most of the time the engine will stop and the gear will line up just
fine...Check your FSM for a procedure on replacing the starter...see if it
calls for a shim.

 

[Backfire Burrito=Skidmark]

because his guess MUST be better than mine.


Carl

No....you missed the point entirely....yours is a guess...mine is FACT.....
MAJOR differance. You publicly admit you dont know often...
I think the OP was looking for a real answer..not a "Guess"

 

[CompUser]

@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net>,
(e-mail address removed) says...

I *LOVE* these "guess and by golly" answers.

The suggestion for air filter and emissions check
was pretty comical, as well.

She says there's a click (there's under-dash
relays to click, aside from starter solenoid),
and talked about problems with tranny
selector...how about a loose/flaky neutral start
switch?

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

No....you missed the point entirely....yours is a guess...mine is FACT.....
MAJOR differance. You publicly admit you dont know often...
I think the OP was looking for a real answer..not a "Guess"

we're all guessing.

Carl