Tire repair question and replacement tires

[yngver]

I have a 2006 Forester which unfortunately keeps picking up nails in
the same tire. I have the OE Geolanders, 25K miles. This time
Firestone told me they are not allowed to patch the same tire more
than three times because it is dangerous. That's one that neither my
husband and I ever heard of before. The nail is not anywhere near the
sidewall.

Naturally they wanted to sell me a new tire, but as far as I know,
with 25K miles I am going to have to replace all four tires, right?
It's a slow leak so I told them to put the tire back on and I'd think
about it overnight. Tomorrow I plan to go to Sears Auto Center.

1) Anyone ever heard that before, that you can only patch a tire three
times, or is that just Firestone trying to sell tires?

2)If I have to replace all four tires, even though they have a lot of
tread left, any recommendations on which ones are a good choice for
the Forester? On my previous cars, which were Hondas, I generally
liked Michelins.
-yngver

 

[Todd H.]

I have a 2006 Forester which unfortunately keeps picking up nails in
the same tire. I have the OE Geolanders, 25K miles. This time
Firestone told me they are not allowed to patch the same tire more
than three times because it is dangerous. That's one that neither my
husband and I ever heard of before. The nail is not anywhere near the
sidewall.

That's a LOT of patches.

Naturally they wanted to sell me a new tire, but as far as I know,
with 25K miles I am going to have to replace all four tires, right?
It's a slow leak so I told them to put the tire back on and I'd think
about it overnight. Tomorrow I plan to go to Sears Auto Center.

1) Anyone ever heard that before, that you can only patch a tire three
times, or is that just Firestone trying to sell tires?

It sounds reasonable to me actually, that an overpatched tire becomes
dangerous at speed. Though I can't say I've ever had occasion to
investigate such a rule.

2)If I have to replace all four tires, even though they have a lot of
tread left, any recommendations on which ones are a good choice for
the Forester? On my previous cars, which were Hondas, I generally
liked Michelins.

I recently gave up trying to bargain hunt with darlings of the
whimsical tirerack.com reviews. The original Firestones on my car had
horrid wet traction and I couldn't wait to get those pieces of crap
off my car. I think I lost patiencee with them around 25k actually.
The Dunlops I replaced them with (Sport A2 or its successor I think)
had some sort of issue I can't recall--out of round was one of them.
After those went out of round or got too thin, then I reluctantly
tired the Kumho's that were such the darling of tirerack.com and
inexpensive to boot. They were fabulous for a whopping 10k miles and
then I felt like the cars tires were out of balance for the rest of
their life despite frequent balancing attempts and fastidious
rotation. Most recently, I finally went to Wal Mart and got the
Michelin's ... and have been extremely happy with those.

So I'd encourage you to give Michelin a try again. I think Sears will
bend you over on them though. My experience at a local Wal Mart tire
center was shockingly good. They had me in and out in under 50
minutes. If you have a Wal Mart with a tire center in it near you or
if you're a Sam's club member it's worth thinkin about.

I have also read a lot of raves about the Goodyear Triple Treads here
over the year. I let availability be my guide--I couldn't find
anyone stocking the Goodyears in my car's size, so I ened up with
Michelin's.

Best Regards,

 

[Dano58]

I have a 2006 Forester which unfortunately keeps picking up nails in
the same tire. I have the OE Geolanders, 25K miles. This time
Firestone told me they are not allowed to patch the same tire more
than three times because it is dangerous. That's one that neither my
husband and I ever heard of before. The nail is not anywhere near the
sidewall.

Naturally they wanted to sell me a new tire, but as far as I know,
with 25K miles I am going to have to replace all four tires, right?
It's a slow leak so I told them to put the tire back on and I'd think
about it overnight. Tomorrow I plan to go to Sears Auto Center.

1) Anyone ever heard that before, that you can only patch a tire three
times, or is that just Firestone trying to sell tires?

2)If I have to replace all four tires, even though they have a lot of
tread left, any recommendations on which ones are a good choice for
the Forester? On my previous cars, which were Hondas, I generally
liked Michelins.
-yngver

I'm not sure I would take a chance on tires patched even twice, to be
honest. I mean, you're willing to risk your life instead of spending
$500 or so on a set of tires??

Dan D
'99 Impreza 2.5 RS (son's) - with new tires
Central NJ USA

 

[Zeppo]

I have a 2006 Forester which unfortunately keeps picking up nails in
the same tire. I have the OE Geolanders, 25K miles. This time
Firestone told me they are not allowed to patch the same tire more
than three times because it is dangerous. That's one that neither my
husband and I ever heard of before. The nail is not anywhere near the
sidewall.

Naturally they wanted to sell me a new tire, but as far as I know,
with 25K miles I am going to have to replace all four tires, right?
It's a slow leak so I told them to put the tire back on and I'd think
about it overnight. Tomorrow I plan to go to Sears Auto Center.

1) Anyone ever heard that before, that you can only patch a tire three
times, or is that just Firestone trying to sell tires?

2)If I have to replace all four tires, even though they have a lot of
tread left, any recommendations on which ones are a good choice for
the Forester? On my previous cars, which were Hondas, I generally
liked Michelins.
-yngver

Sorry, why would you need to replace all 4 tires? Can you not just replace
the one that is bad?

I'm asking this because by daughter just replaced a tire on her 2001
Forester.
Jon

 

[Todd H.]

Sorry, why would you need to replace all 4 tires? Can you not just replace
the one that is bad?

I'm asking this because by daughter just replaced a tire on her 2001
Forester.
Jon

It's a bad idea and not manufacturer recommended on an AWD vehicle.
Slight differences in circumference can allegedly damage the very
expensive transmission components.

If you wanna buy just one tire, it may need to be shaved down to the
existing tires' circumference.

 

[yngver]

It's a bad idea and not manufacturer recommended on an AWD vehicle.
Slight differences in circumference can allegedly damage the very
expensive transmission components.

If you wanna buy just one tire, it may need to be shaved down to the
existing tires' circumference.

I ended up buying a set of four Michelin Primacy tires at Sears. They
told me they replace one tire all the time on Subarus, but having read
the owners manual I didn't want to risk it. It's full of dire warnings
about what will happen if you don't replace all four tires at once. If
I had only 5,000 miles on these tires I would probably go ahead and
just replace one, but with 25,000 miles I figure there would be too
much of a difference in the treadwear--even if I could find the same
Geolanders.

The steering seems less nimble with the Michelins than with the
Geolanders, although they always seemed almost too nimble, like the
car was just about ready to sway. I read the reviews and the Michelin
Primacy MXV4 is supposed to have excellent steering response. Could
the difference be due to something like tire pressure or because they
aren't broken in yet? They are certainly quieter than the Geolanders
and don't squeal on turns, which the Geolanders always did, and
loudly.
-yngver

 

[yngver]

I'm not sure I would take a chance on tires patched even twice, to be
honest. I mean, you're willing to risk your life instead of spending
$500 or so on a set of tires??

Dan D
'99 Impreza 2.5 RS (son's) - with new tires
Central NJ USA

I never knew before now that repairing tires was unsafe, because I was
never so unlucky as to get four nails in the same tire while the other
tires are all patch-free. You'd think the odds would mean at least a
couple of those nails could have ended up in different tires.
Unfortunately in city driving there is plenty of opportunity to pick
up nails and screws and other debris so just about everyone ends up
patching tires--and most people can't afford to be buying new tires
every couple thousand miles. My last nail puncture in this tire was in
May, so you can see how frequently it happens.

With the wheel alignment, it came to $800. At least with road hazard
coverage, next time this happens I'll get a prorated deduction off a
new tire--but just one tire, not all four.

My husband went through a similar situation when his Subaru Legacy hit
some road debris which shredded one tire at 15,000 miles. There are
other reasons we are unlikely to buy another Subaru but this is one of
them. I'd like to just replace one or two tires at a time, and while
AWD is nice to have in a snow storm, most of the time it just means
less fuel economy. I like my Forester for the most part but that is a
costly drawback.
-yngver

 

[JD]

It's a bad idea and not manufacturer recommended on an AWD vehicle.
Slight differences in circumference can allegedly damage the very
expensive transmission components.

If you wanna buy just one tire, it may need to be shaved down to the
existing tires' circumference.

Its not 'alleged'. The Subaru AWD (standards at least) use a liquid viscous
center diff. It detects the difference in the speed of the wheels to lock
up (it assumes you are slipping on the wheel spinning faster). If there is
uneven wear on the tires, they will turn at different rates. If the
difference is large enough, the center diff will begin to lock up. On dry
road, that could destroy it.

 

[Frank]

I have a 2006 Forester which unfortunately keeps picking up nails in
the same tire. I have the OE Geolanders, 25K miles. This time
Firestone told me they are not allowed to patch the same tire more
than three times because it is dangerous. That's one that neither my
husband and I ever heard of before. The nail is not anywhere near the
sidewall.

Naturally they wanted to sell me a new tire, but as far as I know,
with 25K miles I am going to have to replace all four tires, right?
It's a slow leak so I told them to put the tire back on and I'd think
about it overnight. Tomorrow I plan to go to Sears Auto Center.

1) Anyone ever heard that before, that you can only patch a tire three
times, or is that just Firestone trying to sell tires?

2)If I have to replace all four tires, even though they have a lot of
tread left, any recommendations on which ones are a good choice for
the Forester? On my previous cars, which were Hondas, I generally
liked Michelins.
-yngver

I don't know if it is done anymore but when a tubeless tire became
hazardous to patch, they would just put a tube in it. Can you have that
done now?

 

[DK]

I never knew before now that repairing tires was unsafe, because I was
never so unlucky as to get four nails in the same tire while the other
tires are all patch-free. You'd think the odds would mean at least a
couple of those nails could have ended up in different tires.
Unfortunately in city driving there is plenty of opportunity to pick
up nails and screws and other debris so just about everyone ends up
patching tires--and most people can't afford to be buying new tires
every couple thousand miles.

Not in my experience. One nail (bolt, actually) in one tire over
140,000 mile driven. 90% of that in the city.

DK

 

[AS]

Not to encourage anyone to do as I did. I got a nail on a tire and they
did not want to patch it, even though the nail was far from the
sidewall. I ran the tire for two more years until it wore out, with the
nail in place and having to check the pressure every two weeks.

After having used the Michelin MXV4s, at $160 per tire, I will never buy
Michelin tires again. They had the worst traction ever on wet roads and
could never be balanced properly.

When I went to the Goodyear place to get the Mich tires balanced, the
guy asked me about the grip of the Michelins on wet roads, he had a
smirk in his face and then he said, "not too good huh?"

Anyway... I went to Yokohamas and loved the AVS db, best tires I have
had so far... got discontinued.

Tried the TOYO proxes TPT, same tire my friend had on a 2001 Outback.
Both our cars developed the same tire noise and uneven wear patterns.
These tires sucked big time even though they had great traction.

Went to KUMHO ECSTA ASX and after 5K miles, I am very pleased, almost as
much as with the Yokos.

 

[yngver]

I never knew before now that repairing tires was unsafe, because I was
never so unlucky as to get four nails in the same tire while the other
tires are all patch-free. You'd think the odds would mean at least a
couple of those nails could have ended up in different tires.
Unfortunately in city driving there is plenty of opportunity to pick
up nails and screws and other debris so just about everyone ends up
patching tires--and most people can't afford to be buying new tires
every couple thousand miles.

Not in my experience. One nail (bolt, actually) in one tire over
140,000 mile driven. 90% of that in the city.

DK[/QUOTE]

Probably a different city. Speed bumps in the alleys seem to collect
debris, a lot of it sharp. Actually, I never got so many nails and
screws in my tires until I got this Subaru Forester. I wonder whether
the Geolanders are prone to puncture.
-yngver

 

[yngver]

Not to encourage anyone to do as I did. I got a nail on a tire and they
did not want to patch it, even though the nail was far from the
sidewall. I ran the tire for two more years until it wore out, with the
nail in place and having to check the pressure every two weeks.

After having used the Michelin MXV4s, at $160 per tire, I will never buy
Michelin tires again. They had the worst traction ever on wet roads and
could never be balanced properly.

When I went to the Goodyear place to get the Mich tires balanced, the
guy asked me about the grip of the Michelins on wet roads, he had a
smirk in his face and then he said, "not too good huh?"

Anyway... I went to Yokohamas and loved the AVS db, best tires I have
had so far... got discontinued.

Tried the TOYO proxes TPT, same tire my friend had on a 2001 Outback.
Both our cars developed the same tire noise and uneven wear patterns.
These tires sucked big time even though they had great traction.

Went to KUMHO ECSTA ASX and after 5K miles, I am very pleased, almost as
much as with the Yokos.

I wish I had read more reviews like this before buying the Michelin
Primacy MXV4. This tire is top-rated on TireRack, and most people say
the OEM Yokohama Geolanders are terrible tires, but my initial
reaction driving with the new Michelins is "what happened to the
nimble steering I thought was a feature of the Forester?" I wonder if
I can take these tires back and order Geolanders, even though they
squeal terribly. But I didn't realize that "sporty" feel was due to
the Geolanders.
-yngver

 

[bigjimpack]

Other than the OEM potenzas which were awesome for the first 15-20k
then sucked, the best tires I've put on my outback are Cooper Cs4
tourings- great price, performance and a 70k (yeah right) treadlife.
I wasnt pleased with the kumhos I tried on it. The key I think with
kumhos is to get the made in korea ones. Made in china tires are the
pits.

 

[nobody >]

Another excellent tire for the price is the Falken ZIEX 512.
Great ride, even wear, excellent (for an all-weather) rain grip.
Nimble steering, no unexpected surprises, not even in deep rain in
highway ruts. A little offroad driving, but not enough to say anything.
I can't evaluate long term I've only got 11,000 on these.

I can't tell you about snow on this 00 OB as we didn't get enough to
really say. , but we ran out a set of the previous 502s on my wife's OB
Sport at 52,000 and they performed great on highway snow all the way up
to takeoff. They would probably gone thru another 'real' winter but the
wear was getting close to 'time'

 

[Rick Courtright]

I don't know if it is done anymore but when a tubeless tire became
hazardous to patch, they would just put a tube in it. Can you have that
done now?

Hi,

It's been a while since I did that, but it seemed the "practice" from
shop to shop would vary tremendously when I did. One shop wouldn't,
another would, another would "look carefully" before doing it--that kind
of stuff.

A buddy has a restored British sports car w/ wire wheels, and they
require tubes. W/ radial tires, radial tubes are required. Don't think
that's such a problem today as all the tubes I've seen recently are for
radials. Mounting them isn't a job for the careless or uninformed. He
says he's had much better luck doing "odd" stuff when he's sought out an
independent tire shop run by a guy w/ a little grey in his hair than w/
chains employing a high number of 18-20-somethings of dubious
educational achievement and even more dubious abilities in the critical
thinking department, who are also probably pretty well locked in to
company policy as defined by the legal dept....

Rick

 

[houndman]

I have a 2006 Forester which unfortunately keeps picking up nails in
the same tire. I have the OE Geolanders, 25K miles. This time
Firestone told me they are not allowed to patch the same tire more
than three times because it is dangerous. That's one that neither my
husband and I ever heard of before. The nail is not anywhere near the
sidewall.

Naturally they wanted to sell me a new tire, but as far as I know,
with 25K miles I am going to have to replace all four tires, right?
It's a slow leak so I told them to put the tire back on and I'd think
about it overnight. Tomorrow I plan to go to Sears Auto Center.

1) Anyone ever heard that before, that you can only patch a tire three
times, or is that just Firestone trying to sell tires?

2)If I have to replace all four tires, even though they have a lot of
tread left, any recommendations on which ones are a good choice for
the Forester? On my previous cars, which were Hondas, I generally
liked Michelins.
-yngver

I'd get them to try to explain What the danger was? Would like to find
it explained on the the net. I never counted the # of plugs, and
Didn't use Steel Belted tire plugs, just Plain rubber ones, and then
started to make them out of old inner tube, and never had a plug or
tire fail. Got to where I didn't pull the tire off the car to plug it,
and even had a reversible screwdriver shaft in a steel belted tire
tread, on an angle, flapping around like a broken skid chain, hitting
the fender.

I had kids cut a sidewall, and according to Popular Mechanics, a 2
inch dia hole in the tread or sidewall could be vulcanized. It was a
new tire so I went to a vulcanizer, and they wouldn't do it, and
wanted to sell me a Used tire. I patched it myself with a bicycle
patch on the inside of the tire. It held for a year till the patch
came loose. I had enough miles on the tire to get rid of it. I have
some patches for patching sidewalls.

Should be hearing from the Darwin Twins soon.))

VF

 

[yngver]

I'd get them to try to explain What the danger was? Would like to find
it explained on the the net. I never counted the # of plugs, and
Didn't use Steel Belted tire plugs, just Plain rubber ones, and then
started to make them out of old inner tube, and never had a plug or
tire fail. Got to where I didn't pull the tire off the car to plug it,
and even had a reversible screwdriver shaft in a steel belted tire
tread, on an angle, flapping around like a broken skid chain, hitting
the fender.

  I had kids cut a sidewall, and according to Popular Mechanics, a 2
inch dia hole in the tread or sidewall could be vulcanized. It was a
new tire so I went to a vulcanizer, and they wouldn't do it, and
wanted to sell me a Used tire. I patched it myself with a bicycle
patch on the inside of the tire. It held for a year till the patch
came loose. I had enough miles on the tire to get rid of it. I have
some patches for patching sidewalls.

 Should be hearing from the Darwin Twins soon.))

VF- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't know exactly what the danger is if there are too many patches
in a tire. Firestone said they won't patch a tire more than three
times. Not sure why three is the magic number. Sears said they
couldn't patch it again because the puncture was too close to an
existing patch. That at least made a little more sense than the "you
can only patch a tire three times" argument, as though it is a state
law or something.

On the Net I only came across a Snopes discussion in which a tire
dealer claimed you can't patch a tire more than twice. Apparently
there really is no specific number, just how many times a particular
tire shop will repair the tire before they say you have to buy a new
one. Some might only patch once, I guess. Or not at all. For most
people, if they have a flat and are running on the under-sized spare,
they are kind of at the mercy of the tire shop.
-yngver

 

[suburboturbo]

I have a 2006 Forester which unfortunately keeps picking up nails in
the same tire. I have the OE Geolanders, 25K miles. This time
Firestone told me they are not allowed to patch the same tire more
than three times because it is dangerous. That's one that neither my
husband and I ever heard of before. The nail is not anywhere near the
sidewall.

Naturally they wanted to sell me a new tire, but as far as I know,
with 25K miles I am going to have to replace all four tires, right?
It's a slow leak so I told them to put the tire back on and I'd think
about it overnight. Tomorrow I plan to go to Sears Auto Center.

1) Anyone ever heard that before, that you can only patch a tire three
times, or is that just Firestone trying to sell tires?

2)If I have to replace all four tires, even though they have a lot of
tread left, any recommendations on which ones are a good choice for
the Forester? On my previous cars, which were Hondas, I generally
liked Michelins.
-yngver

I've had a 1999 Outback Sport, 2002 2.5RS and 2004 WRX and absolutely
hated the Bridgestone RE92s. Was able to find an OB sport with BF
Goodrich T/As, and they were better, but the suspension just wasn't
made for handling.
Replaced the RE92s on the WRX with Continental Extreme Contact.
Excellent wet and dry traction in all temperatures, stiff sidewalls
handle well in summer even though all-seasons. Since I'm in the snow
belt I still switch over to winter tires for december through
february, Vikings made by Cooper. Again, excellent rubber. Consumer
reports picked them #2 to a Michelin, ahead of two different
Blizzaks.

 

[ejcookso]

Some time shops can "shave" a new tire to match your worn set,
allowing you to buy just one. Not sure I'd go for paying someone to
wear out a brand new tire for me, but it will be cheaper than buying
the other 3, especially if they're on the newer end of their lifespan.

You are correct, though, you cannot just throw one brand new tire on.
It'll screw up your AWD system.

Also, FWIW, I've got Michelen Pilot Exalto's on my Legacy Wagon.
They're sporty & grip well so far. We'll see on treadlife. The MXM
(Energy & Pimacy) tires are passenger tires, not performance tires, so
I'm not suprised folks who wanted a sporty ride hated them.