Synthetic oil

[peter (archive)]

Good day all. Perhaps this question has been asked before but here goes: my car has roughly 261000 kms on it. I am thinking of changing oil to synthetic oil. Is this a good idea?

Pete

 

[Hal Whelply]

Let's see, 261,000 km translates to approximately 175,000 miles. I'd say, if you're doing that well on dino oil, why switch?!

 

[Chris Phillipo]

Let's see, 261,000 km translates to approximately 175,000 miles. I'd say, if you're doing that well on dino oil, why switch?!

I think he's being lured by claims of better mileage and more power but these are bearly perceptible in real life except for the every present "placebo" effect

 

[Rick Courtright]

goes: my car has roughly 261000 kms on it. I am thinking of changing

Hi,

You realize you're about to unleash the synthetic vs dino oil monster yet again? But before you do, I'd suggest you stick with dino oil at this late date. You MAY find your engine leaking more than before (no, syn oil doesn't cause leaks per se, but if you've got some that are just being prevented by sludge or goo, it often tends to clean better than dino oil.) And as another poster put it, you'll probably be hard pressed to see enough difference in anything to justify the cost. (I've been that route, kept good records, saw no improvement that wasn't with statistical probability with any oil.)

It's up to you--my opinion is wait until you've got a new motor to go the syn-oil route.

Rick

 

[Guest]

Good day all. Perhaps this question has been asked before but here goes: my car has roughly 261000 kms on it. I am thinking of changing oil to synthetic oil. Is this a good idea?

Pete

My advice - switch. I have Outback '97 with 120kMiles. After I switched to full synthetic oil (through 2 semi-synth oil change), knocking sound with cold engine is gone. Can't say about mileage or power, since I changed oxygen sensors recently, but I really like how engine works now. Plus, before I always added oil between changes. Not much, may be 1/3 - 1/2 quart on 3000-4000 miles. Now I change oil every 6000 miles and I don't add anything between.

 

[JaySee]

I think he's being lured by claims of better mileage and more power but these are bearly perceptible in real life except for the every present "placebo" effect

I get much better mileage after switching to Mobil-1 Synthetic over the OEM Valvoline Dino Oil. Usually 5 more miles a gallon.

 

[Edward Hayes]

After switching to Mobil 1 engine oil and both differentials to Mobil1 gear oil I realized about 0.5 mpg improvement. This improvement will never cover the increased cost of Synthetic oil if I drive a million miles.

 

[peter (archive)]

Thanks for the inputs guys.

Pete

After switching to Mobil 1 engine oil and both differentials to Mobil1 gear oil I realized about 0.5 mpg improvement. This improvement will never cover the increased cost of Synthetic oil if I drive a million miles.

say, if

 

[y_p_w]

Peter wrote:

Hi,

You realize you're about to unleash the synthetic vs dino oil monster yet again? But before you do, I'd suggest you stick with dino oil at this late date. You MAY find your engine leaking more than before (no, syn oil doesn't cause leaks per se, but if you've got some that are just being prevented by sludge or goo, it often tends to clean better than dino oil.) And as another poster put it, you'll probably be hard pressed to see enough difference in anything to justify the cost. (I've been that route, kept good records, saw no improvement that wasn't with statistical probability with any oil.)

This is the excuse often cited by Amsoil sales droids (i.e. the "cleaning out stuff"), which apparently is a myth.

The biggest problem with leaking comes from the tendency of (synthetic) polyalphaolefin base oils to leach out plasticizers from the seals. The seals become hard and shrink. There was a real bad problem when Mobil 1 first became available in the early 80's. They've learned, and increased the seal-swell additives to compensate, as well as added an ester base which also helps. In addition, seal materials have been engineered with synthetic oil compatibility in mind.

I've heard reports of initial leaks with PAO synthetic, which stopped after some time. The seal compatibility ingredients might not be enough initially in an older car whose seals are borderline ready to leak, but eventually "catch up" and restore the seals.

 

[Don (archive)]

This is the excuse often cited by Amsoil sales droids (i.e. the "cleaning out stuff"), which apparently is a myth.

The biggest problem with leaking comes from the tendency of (synthetic) polyalphaolefin base oils to leach out plasticizers from the seals. The seals become hard and shrink. There was a real bad problem when Mobil 1 first became available in the early 80's. They've learned, and increased the seal-swell additives to compensate, as well as added an ester base which also helps. In addition, seal materials have been engineered with synthetic oil compatibility in mind.

I've heard reports of initial leaks with PAO synthetic, which stopped after some time. The seal compatibility ingredients might not be enough initially in an older car whose seals are borderline ready to leak, but eventually "catch up" and restore the seals.

In 1998 I bought an '88 Porsche Carrera with 50K miles on it. I switched to Amsoil in the transaxle as soon as I got the car because of a hesitation in shifting from low to 2nd. Didn't do any good, later found out why, and 6 months later it started leaking through the shifter shaft input. That's when I heard about the tendancy of synthetics to cause leaks in "older vehicles". Don't know that I "proved" it, but certainly "experienced" it, and it was costly.
Username munged by FixNews

 

[Rick Courtright]

shaft input. That's when I heard about the tendancy of synthetics to cause leaks in "older vehicles". Don't know that I "proved" it, but certainly "experienced" it, and it was costly.

Hi,

Considering the age of the vehicle, and my experience regarding the overall quality of German seals (sorry to offend anyone, but I gave up on the Fatherland's ability to produce an oil tight mechanism years ago! Kitty litter on a drip pan under my several VWs and one Porsche proved much cheaper than constantly replacing seals! Friends tell me their M-Bs and BMWs share the problem), it's hard to assign blame. As y_p_w mentioned, there have been a variety of changes in both the oil and seals over the years. My guess is your experience (shared by many of us) results from a combination of causes. And, yes, it does prove costly! One reason I don't suggest a switch on a hi-mileage engine. (Or gearbox/transaxle/diff?) Naturally, this is a YMMV item!

Rick

 

[Pete D]

Actually the guides that the oil companies put out are a pretty good guide. They don't recomend full synthetic, at least the ones I have read, a semi will do better.

Thanks for the inputs guys.

Pete

Edward Hayes wrote:
> After switching to Mobil 1 engine oil and both differentials to Mobil1

gear
: > oil I realized about 0.5 mpg improvement. This improvement will never cover

> the increased cost of Synthetic oil if I drive a million miles.
> : >
>>On Mon, 17 May 2004 00:54:52 -0300, Chris Phillipo
>>
>>
>>>In article <vAWpc.52877$Z%5.1441@okepread01>, says...
>>>
>>>>Let's see, 261,000 km translates to approximately 175,000 miles. I'd
>
> say, if
>
>>>>you're doing that well on dino oil, why switch?!
...

 

[Hal Whelply]

Pete,

"...[A] semi [synthetic] will do better [than a full synthetic]??

How so? Why, exactly? Where can I read more on this?

Thanks.

HW

 

[Edward Hayes]

I don't believe it. Identify your source for that information. Ed

Pete,

"...[A] semi [synthetic] will do better [than a full synthetic]??

How so? Why, exactly? Where can I read more on this?

Thanks.

HW

Actually the guides that the oil companies put out are a pretty good guide. They don't recomend full synthetic, at least the ones I have read, a semi will do better.

 

[TG]

Better on your wallet!

Pete,

"...[A] semi [synthetic] will do better [than a full synthetic]??

How so? Why, exactly? Where can I read more on this?

Thanks.

HW

Actually the guides that the oil companies put out are a pretty good guide. They don't recomend full synthetic, at least the ones I have read, a semi will do better.

 

[Guest]

Better on your wallet!

C'mon... $7-8 for 5qt for regular oil and $17-20 for full synth is not so big expence (I even don't consider 50c "second hand oil"). Especially considering the fact that you may change oil not at 3500 miles, but at 7000. Plus, you have a slight savings on MPG (I do). Plus, I don't add oil between changes as with regular oil (I did before). And finaly, my pistons stop knocking since I started using full synth. I'm happy with synthetic...

 

[TG]

The full synthetic was running me $41.75 for 5 quarts...what do you run? TG

 

[y_p_w]

The full synthetic was running me $41.75 for 5 quarts...what do you run? TG

I plan on using Mobil 1 5W-30 at regular change intervals. It costs me at most $20 for a 5 qt jug at Wal-Mart, or $3.39/qt at local Target Store (only one location has this price though).

 

[Jim Stewart]

I plan on using Mobil 1 5W-30 at regular change intervals. It costs me at most $20 for a 5 qt jug at Wal-Mart, or $3.39/qt at local Target Store (only one location has this price though).

If your valves clatter too much when cold, try
Mobil 1 10W-30. It was much better than 5W-30
in my 2.5l DOHC.

 

[Guest]

The full synthetic was running me $41.75 for 5 quarts...what do you run? TG

Where and when you had these prices? You were ripped off. WallMart sells 5qt canister for $18-22. I'm purchasing NAPA Full Synth (actually it's Valvoline oil) for 3.45-3.50 because I need 4qt per change, so, it costs me $14 per change. I use 5w30 and my valves are quite like new