Subaru SPFI fuel pump location? (where is it!)

[aiiadict]

I'm doing SPFI conversion to an EA81... going to the Junkyard every day.

1986 and 1987 2WD GL wagons, sedans, and 3-door coupes (excluding XT and turbo) 1988 and 1989 GL or DL wagons, sedans, and 3 door coupes (excluding XT and turbo) 1990 through 1994 Loyale models (excluding 1990 turbo)

there's the models of Subarus that will work. WHERE is the fuel pump?

I found an 86 GL wagon... traced the lines to the back. I look in front of the passenger side rear wheel. I see the lines going through the frame.

I look in the back deck area. There is 1)an access panel to the tank (near the middle of the vehicle, on the back deck) Is this the pump? or the level sensor? or both? I also look at the wheel well cover. Right behind it is a small access panel. I open that up with a 10mm wrench, and find 2 fuel lines, a two conductor 12 wire harness, but no pump... it disappears once again into the frame.

Do I have to pull the tank?

Rich

 

[David (archive)]

I'm doing SPFI conversion to an EA81... going to the Junkyard every day.

1986 and 1987 2WD GL wagons, sedans, and 3-door coupes (excluding XT and turbo) 1988 and 1989 GL or DL wagons, sedans, and 3 door coupes (excluding XT and turbo) 1990 through 1994 Loyale models (excluding 1990 turbo)

there's the models of Subarus that will work. WHERE is the fuel pump?

I found an 86 GL wagon... traced the lines to the back. I look in front of the passenger side rear wheel. I see the lines going through the frame.

I look in the back deck area. There is 1)an access panel to the tank (near the middle of the vehicle, on the back deck) Is this the pump? or the level sensor? or both? I also look at the wheel well cover. Right behind it is a small access panel. I open that up with a 10mm wrench, and find 2 fuel lines, a two conductor 12 wire harness, but no pump... it disappears once again into the frame.

Do I have to pull the tank?

Rich

Inside the fuel tank?

 

[Joe Kultgen]

wrote in @p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

I look in the back deck area. There is 1)an access panel to the tank (near the middle of the vehicle, on the back deck) Is this the pump? or the level sensor? or both? I also look at the wheel well cover. Right behind it is a small access panel. I open that up with a 10mm wrench, and find 2 fuel lines, a two conductor 12 wire harness, but no pump... it disappears once again into the frame.

Do I have to pull the tank?

Rich

It's under the car, in front of the rear passenger side wheel well, mounted on the upper side of a sheet steel plate which is held on with three 10mm bolts. If you flip up the bottom of the rear seat like you're getting ready to fold the seat down you can see the wiring harness. The fuel pump leads branch off and go through a rubber grommet in the passenger side floor pan under the seat. Just follow the wires to the pump.

I did the conversion last summer and when it was done I wanted to kick myself. Don't get me wrong. It's a good conversion. Removing a carburetor is the next best thing to performing an exorcism.

The problem is, less than a month after I finished, I discovered I could have had a Legacy parts car for much less than I paid for the SPFI parts. If you're going to rework the wiring harness for fuel injection it's just as easy to set it up for the 2.2 MPFI engine out of the Legacy and bolt in an extra fifty horsepower while you're at it. If I wanted to do the swap now I'd have to start by ripping out all the wiring I sweated and cussed over in order to upgrade to the Legacy ECU. :-(

Later,
Joe

 

[bgd]

The FI conversion on the 80s soobs is stranger than the quest for 5 main bearings and a crankshaft skinner than a banned supermodel. Does anyone know to change the cam timing to the lazy slob that slow generation of fuel injection needs? Have fun with it. I do not know who started this lack of facted quest but I did find a group that had several swappers. The swappers aren't saying everything necessary. Carb cams are 3 btdc and tight on the exhaust side as well to increase vacuum, the fi are lazy to slow the vacuum down and keep up with what is now a prehistoric computer (any of history is written correctly can it be called historic: hence prehistoric.) After having 3 versions of old subaru and working on others Fi and carb.. Uhhh. Gimme the 10 dollar carb rebuild , and the 20 years of perfection it went through before needing anything.Not to mention that incredible low end torque line.

Anyway, I have a 93 Loyale manual 5spd 2wd FI complete. wiring diagram seems to be impossible to find. I have complete harness for this ECU and kept all the gadgets. It was the fastest SPFI of the old soob gens I have ever had. If interested, send me an email.(would be shipped from Maine) The 2wd by common sense of course functioned the fastest- proven to myself time and time again.It simply isn't doing much but run the engine.Perfect for a conversion enthusiast.

50 bucks gives the ECU, its unique harness, the spfi unit, and other odds and ends related if requested. Good Luck on the wring diagram. Nothing comes close to the books and cds I purchased to identify the power relays etc.

 

[aiiadict]

It's under the car, in front of the rear passenger side wheel well,

Thanks... I eventually found it by tracing the lines from the tank... I took out the rear passenger wheel well cover, because there were fuel lines going into it... apparently some sort of vapor container?

I did the conversion last summer and when it was done I wanted to kick myself. Don't get me wrong. It's a good conversion. Removing a carburetor is the next best thing to performing an exorcism.

This EA81 I'm putting it into is in a VW bus

The problem is, less than a month after I finished, I discovered I could have had a Legacy parts car for much less than I paid for the SPFI parts. If you're going to rework the wiring harness for fuel injection it's just as easy to set it up for the 2.2 MPFI engine out of the Legacy and bolt in an extra fifty horsepower while you're at it. If I wanted to do the swap now I'd have to start by ripping out all the wiring I sweated and cussed over in order to upgrade to the Legacy ECU. :-(

So you're saying use an entire 2.2 MPFI engine?

The reason I'm using EA81:
1)it was free
2)I rebuilt it completely
3)pushrod, no overhead cams or timing belts.

The reason I'm going to EA82 SPFI:
1)the VW carb I had on it sucked.
2)the subaru carb was SCARY, I didn't even attempt to run it
3)better milage and power
4)it's "easy" to swap. Crank pos. sensor is in the dist..

Tearing apart the wiring harness is a pain... I kept pulling wires through holes thinking "this should be seperate from that"... I ended up tieing knots. I got all the knots undone. It's easy to get the manifold harness end to tape together... the closer you get to the ECU the harder it gets, ends up being lumpy

I turned on the computer for the first time today. There is an "automatic shutoff" connector on the harness... You must jump the connector (close the connection) for the power relay to come on.

I had it connected with just manifold connectors attached..

error 21 = stuck AFM

, error 24 = Throttle stuck wide open

Ok, plug in the connectors. I get error code 5.

Any idea what this is? The oxygen sensor isn't connected yet. The whole mess is on the bench in the shop.

Can I use the Oxy sensor from another vehicle? Kragen wants $35 for the sensor, and $15 for the nut that you weld to the pipe.

The air bypass valve clicks, prolly a good sign.

The dist. wasn't hooked up when I got the error code 5. But according to ECU error docs, it isn't a dist. error.

I have the SPFI manifold off an 87 loyale, the rest of parts were off a ?86? GL wagon. Should the manifold be compatible with the ECU ? If not, I need to get back to the junk yard.

What is the canister that hooks up to the "purge valve" ? I have 3 vacuum lines going to it. 1 is to base (front of engine) of throttle body. the other 2 are to the ??dash?? Why would vacuum lines from the canister go to the dash? I've see A/C control flaps controlled by "dashpots", vacuum controlled actuators. But I don't see how any vacuum can be making it to the dash through the canister, unless the vacuum conn. on the front of the throttle body provides enough... Also, on the bottom of the canister is a 3/8" hose connector. What's this go to?

Last: The PCV valve on rear of manifold goes to L shaped vacuum hose. At the end of the L is a T. One branch of the T goes to drivers side valve cover. What does the other branch of the T goto?

Thanks a bunch for help so far!

Rich

 

[aiiadict]

That carb is a RATS NEST.. I wouldn't even touch it when I got the engine for free. I pulled it off, and in the trash it went. The steel piping cluster was RIDICULOUS!

I have a silver ECU from 87 loyale, and the black from the ?86? GL. I'll try plugging in the silver one and see if I get any different error codes.

so I got two almost complete sets of SPFI.

1)manifold, afm, ecu, dist, wiring harness from 87 loyale
2)ecu, dist, coil, fuel pump from ?86? GL -- I'm going to go back for the manifold and AFM

I'm hoping the manifold and AFM from the 87 is compatible with the 86 ECU... if not, it's back to the junkyard.

When you go to the junkyard, don't buy single parts! Ask "how much of the whole setup?" It would have cost me $1000 to buy it piece by piece. I got it for $200 with the engine, complete (fuel pump, harness, etc etc)

Rich

 

[aiiadict]

Ok... figured out what 5 flashes mean... START signal has been on more than a few seconds.

Silver ECU: connected the dist. that went with it. spun it. The injector clicks and the fuel pump pumps!

black ECU: connected the dist. that went with silver ECU. No action.

so good news! the thing clicks like mad on my bench!

the fuel pump only pumps when "engine is running or cranking", IE if the distributor stops spinning, the fuel pump stops pumping.

Rich

 

[Joe Kultgen]

wrote in

Thanks... I eventually found it by tracing the lines from the tank... I took out the rear passenger wheel well cover, because there were fuel lines going into it... apparently some sort of vapor container?

Vapor separater. Soob gas tank is a (semi)sealed system to control all them nasty unburned hydrocarbons the tree huggers worry about. The vapor separater keeps liquid gas from sloshing into the tank vent line. The vent line runs to a black canister under the hood filled with activated charcoal. Car uses gas, air flows from hole in bottom of canister through charcoal and vent line to keep tank from collapsing. If something like a temp change causes the air/fumes in the tank to expand the vapor separater traps any liquid and the charcoal canister traps the fumes. Purge selenoid lets manifold vacuum actuate a diaphram on top of the canister opening a valve that lets a larger line to the manifold suck clean air through the canister and "purge" it for a new batch of tank fumes.

This EA81 I'm putting it into is in a VW bus

Then you'll want to check out this page. http://www.smallcar.com/van30.htm

Their prices are out of my budget but it's a nice place to look for ideas.

The reason I'm using EA81:
1)it was free
2)I rebuilt it completely
3)pushrod, no overhead cams or timing belts.

The reason I'm going to EA82 SPFI:
1)the VW carb I had on it sucked.
2)the subaru carb was SCARY, I didn't even attempt to run it
3)better milage and power
4)it's "easy" to swap. Crank pos. sensor is in the dist..

I'm pretty sure you have to modify the EA82 disty to get it to work right with the EA81 Check this out if you haven't found it on your own already.

http://home.comcast.net/~trilinear/EA81_SPFI.html

Can I use the Oxy sensor from another vehicle? Kragen wants $35 for the sensor, and $15 for the nut that you weld to the pipe.

That's the going rate for aftermarket. If you'd like to get it from the dealer instead he'll be happy to bill you $135 for one. The car will run without one but if you're going to this much trouble why not do it right?

I have the SPFI manifold off an 87 loyale, the rest of parts were off a ?86? GL wagon. Should the manifold be compatible with the ECU ? If not, I need to get back to the junk yard.

'86 was the last year the GL wagon had a carb. I've heard some of them also had an ECU. That's right, a computer controled carb!

The important thing is for your ECU to match the MAF sensor on the air filter housing. Some of the early ones used a flapper type before they switched to the much more accurate hot wire system.

Last: The PCV valve on rear of manifold goes to L shaped vacuum hose. At the end of the L is a T. One branch of the T goes to drivers side valve cover. What does the other branch of the T goto?

An elbow on the large intake hose between the MAF sensor on the air cleaner housing and the throttle body. On the EA82 there is also a second smaller hose running from this large hose to the passenger valve cover.

 

[aiiadict]

<good info snipped>

Ok.. I verified timing is good. crank a bunch, no start.

good spark.

next, check fuel.

pop off the intake boot, turn it over. No spray into the throttle body.

I'm looking at the schematics, and I can't see how fuel gets into idle circuit. with throttle valve closed, the only air entering the system is through the bypass valve. the inlet to the manifold is below the throttle valve.

how does gasoline enter manifold at idle?

ok, so I'm messing with the throttle body.. put power to START on ECU, fuel pump turns on...

no spray

hold start on (about 5 to 7 seconds)

all of a sudden I have BIG spray, and it fills the throttle body. I'm not cranking the engine, so I pull the plugs to let it air out.

a few minutes later I try again. The same.

I wonder if the injector was stuck before, finally became unstuck, and now sticks open?

I pull the injector. Put 12v to it. it clicks happily.

I put air pressure to the intake hole of the injector. I get flow to the output hole. I don't think this is supposed to happen (IE, fuel should flow only if power to injector)

There is a screw on top. Not supposed to be able to remove it (tiny tack welds)...

I remove the screw. there is a spring under it. there is an o-ring on the screw.

the o-ring seems to be damaged/old.

any tips on cleaning or fixing the damaged injector (I'll go get a new- used one at the yard tomorrow)

Rich

 

[Joe Kultgen]

wrote in @b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

I'm looking at the schematics, and I can't see how fuel gets into idle circuit. with throttle valve closed, the only air entering the system is through the bypass valve. the inlet to the manifold is below the throttle valve.

how does gasoline enter manifold at idle?

From the injector. The throttle body has a factory set throttle stop screw that allows enough of a gap for fuel to pass the throttle plate while vacuum is happening. You may want to hit the inside of the throttle body with a shot of carb cleaner if it's gunked up where the plate closes. Do *NOT* mess with the throttle stop screw. It's adjusted at the factory by some process never disclosed to anyone born in this hemisphere.

There is a screw on top. Not supposed to be able to remove it (tiny tack welds)...

I remove the screw. there is a spring under it. there is an o-ring on the screw.

the o-ring seems to be damaged/old.

any tips on cleaning or fixing the damaged injector (I'll go get a new- used one at the yard tomorrow)

Rich

Some injectors are rebuildable if you have the right data and fixtures, some were meant to be used up and tossed. I believe the Soob SPFI units fall in the second catagory. Check your fuel pressure! The pressure regulator is built into the throttle body and and if it's stuck you may either get no flow or be blowing fuel past a closed injector.

Sounds like you're getting close. Let us know how it goes.

Later,
Joe

 

[aiiadict]

Some injectors are rebuildable if you have the right data and fixtures, some were meant to be used up and tossed. I believe the Soob SPFI units fall in the second catagory.

looks like it... it's crimped together.

Check your fuel pressure!

I'll check tomorrow. seems like plenty of pressure in the system..

Sounds like you're getting close. Let us know how it goes.

Ok.. still great spark, at right time.

While cranking, (applying +12 to START on ECU) I get 0 to 2v at injector with analog meter (could be slow response of meter giving false reading)

Injector:
1) +12, -12 to it, and I get a good spray of fuel
2) no continuity between injector and case... it's insulated properly
3) testing at ECU connector, on injector power supply pins, I get
1.7 ohms resistance. This is the same resistance of the injector itself, and is within acceptable range according to the service manual
4) testing across injector, with injector in circuit with ECU, cranking engine, START = 12v, I get 2volts/0volts oscillating

Is 2volts enough power for injector? I don't think so.

I get code 5 when I reset the computer... from what I read, this is specification code

after cranking, I get code 14, "injector- abnormal output"

so it looks like ECU isn't supplying enough voltage.

I opened the box and find the transistor that controls this signal.. perhaps it is bad, or the bias resistor(s) is(are) damaged (I play electronics)

Any ideas?

Rich

 

[aiiadict]

I get code 5 when I reset the computer... from what I read, this is specification code

after cranking, I get code 14, "injector- abnormal output"

This is 91 loyale SPFI ECU, manifold, MAF

but I have an 87 Fuel Pump...

Rich

 

[Joe Kultgen]

wrote in @y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

This is 91 loyale SPFI ECU, manifold, MAF

but I have an 87 Fuel Pump...

Rich

Different year on the fuel pump should't be a problem as long as you're certain it's a fuel injection pump. The FI pumps are cylindrical and deliver around 35-50 psi, carb pumps are rectangular and put out around 3-5 psi.

According to the flow chart in my FSM you should check for open circuit on terminals 43 and 48 of the ECU and replace the unit if bad. The fact that it's putting out *some* voltage would lead me to look for a bad solder joint where those terminals hit the circuit board.

The other posibility is that you fried it during your test hook up. The body of the ECU must be solidly grounded. A weak or intermittant ground will cause these units to go TU.

Later,
Joe