Subaru Service Program WWP-99

[BRH]

I own a 2001 Forester and got a "customer satisfaction" (ie - recall?)
letter from Subaru of America yesterday. This letter recommends "as a
precautionary measure" that "a special conditioner be added to the
engine cooling system of certain 1999 through 2002 model year Subaru
vehicles equipped with 2.5 liter engines". It goes on to say that this
recommendation is made "to prevent a possible external coolant leak at
your vehicle's engine cylinder head gaskets".

It recommends having this Subaru Cooling System Conditioner added as
soon as possible (at a Subaru dealership, of course), at no cost (this
time). It then says that, "In the future, it will be necessary to add
Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner to your vehicle's cooling
system whenever the engine coolant is replaced".

Has anyone else gotten this letter? Are the head gaskets really at risk
without this treatment and, if so, shouldn't Subaru be recalling and
replacing an engine part rather than requiring owner's to take an extra
step when replacing coolant? I mean -- other cars don't require this
added step, so is there an inherent problem with the Subaru that they
are trying to address on the cheap?

I'm no mechanic, but I never heard of something like this.....

Bert

 

[Jonathan Goodish]

It recommends having this Subaru Cooling System Conditioner added as
soon as possible (at a Subaru dealership, of course), at no cost (this
time). It then says that, "In the future, it will be necessary to add
Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner to your vehicle's cooling
system whenever the engine coolant is replaced".

Has anyone else gotten this letter? Are the head gaskets really at risk
without this treatment and, if so, shouldn't Subaru be recalling and
replacing an engine part rather than requiring owner's to take an extra
step when replacing coolant? I mean -- other cars don't require this
added step, so is there an inherent problem with the Subaru that they
are trying to address on the cheap?

I'm no mechanic, but I never heard of something like this.....

I'm not a mechanic either, and I haven't (yet) received the recall
notice for my 2002 Outback, but the answers to your questions are "yes,"
it's a cheap fix, and "yes" they should be (but aren't) fixing the
problem by replacing the affected gaskets. The problem for Subaru is
that replacing the gaskets is expensive, and they only need to make sure
that the gaskets last until the car is out of warranty. If Subaru was
interested in fixing it right, they'd replace the gaskets. As it is,
over 100k miles, you're on your own.

I am going to watch to see if mine are leaking or begin to leak, and if
they do, I'm not going to settle for a "conditioner" as the resolution.
Local dealer told me that Subaru has instructed them to STOP replacing
head gaskets under warranty, and instead put the "conditioner" into the
cooling system and watch to see what happens. Sounds like a cheap
band-aid fix to me.


JKG

 

[TG]

definitely not a recall. TG

 

[TG]

What if it leaks into a combustion chamber or somewhere else where there is
no visible sign? TG

 

[Jim Lofgren]

Had mine inspected three weeks ago and it is seeping on one side. Just a
little. The service rep said that the conditioner should stop the seepage
but to keep an eye on it. He called me at work the next day and said he had
seen three like mine and that if there was anymore seepage that I spotted,
to bring it in and they would do both sides. I feel like I'm playing with
something that should be done. 58K on a 2K OB. He said they were extending
out the warranttee to 100K, but I doubt mine will make it that far.

Jim

 

[BRH]

What's the warranty on something like that normally? 60K?

 

[Chris Phillipo]

Was the same recall issued for the Japanese built engines in Imprezas?

 

[null_pointer]

I'm not a mechanic either, and I haven't (yet) received the recall

notice for my 2002 Outback, but the answers to your questions are "yes,"
it's a cheap fix, and "yes" they should be (but aren't) fixing the
problem by replacing the affected gaskets. The problem for Subaru is
that replacing the gaskets is expensive, and they only need to make sure
that the gaskets last until the car is out of warranty. If Subaru was
interested in fixing it right, they'd replace the gaskets. As it is,
over 100k miles, you're on your own.

I am going to watch to see if mine are leaking or begin to leak, and if
they do, I'm not going to settle for a "conditioner" as the resolution.
Local dealer told me that Subaru has instructed them to STOP replacing
head gaskets under warranty, and instead put the "conditioner" into the
cooling system and watch to see what happens. Sounds like a cheap
band-aid fix to me.

Thanks much to you all for alerting me to this issue: I am now
removing the Impreza TS from my list of possible buys when I move to
Minnesota in a few weeks. Not only do I find the problem
unacceptable, I find SOA's attitude towards performing a proper fix to
also be unaccptable. I will be getting either an Element or a
Martix/Vibe.
I have been hearing about the gasket issue for some time and it just
blows me away that a proper fix at the materials and/or manufacturing
level has not been instituted long ago.

 

[Chris Phillipo]

Thanks much to you all for alerting me to this issue: I am now
removing the Impreza TS from my list of possible buys when I move to
Minnesota in a few weeks. Not only do I find the problem
unacceptable, I find SOA's attitude towards performing a proper fix to
also be unaccptable. I will be getting either an Element or a
Martix/Vibe.
I have been hearing about the gasket issue for some time and it just
blows me away that a proper fix at the materials and/or manufacturing
level has not been instituted long ago.

I think you'll find ust about every vehical with aluminum heads has head
gasket issues.

 

[Alan]

A proper fix has been insituted. Newer models do not have thismproblem, as
different gaskets are now used. I think they started half way through the 02
model year.

 

[Mike]

Had the head gaskets done on my '01 OBW at 41K miles in Dec '03. Just
got the official recall letter. Adding a sealer is a cheap fix a used
car dealer would pull, not something I'd expect from a manufacturer.
But then again Cadillac specified a cooling system sealer for their
engines a few years back.

Mike

 

[Diva]

I think you're right because mine is an '02 and the dealer told me I would
not have this issue with mine.

June

 

[Edward Hayes]

It is a recall according to the website;

definitely not a recall. TG

 

[Edward Hayes]

I had the service preformed on my 2000 Forester and I am glad SOA is willing
to do something about a relatively minor problem. Both Ford/GM and Chrysler
have had serious head gasket problems (leaks between cylinders and leaks
into the cooling system). If their cars got beyond the basic warranty it was
we're sorry but you must pay. SOA on the other hand extended the warranty to
100,000 miles if you would bring your vehicle in for a free dose of sealer.
Some manufactures put it in at the factory as it's a known issue so they
don't need to extend the base warranty. Ed Hayes

 

[Chris Phillipo]

Subject: Re: Subaru Service Program WWP-99
From: "Edward Hayes" <(e-mail address removed)>
Newsgroups: alt.autos.subaru

I had the service preformed on my 2000 Forester and I am glad SOA is willing
to do something about a relatively minor problem. Both Ford/GM and Chrysler
have had serious head gasket problems (leaks between cylinders and leaks
into the cooling system). If their cars got beyond the basic warranty it was
we're sorry but you must pay. SOA on the other hand extended the warranty to
100,000 miles if you would bring your vehicle in for a free dose of sealer.
Some manufactures put it in at the factory as it's a known issue so they
don't need to extend the base warranty. Ed Hayes

As anyone who has owned a V6 4 Runner knows a similar situation happened
with those, head gaskets were letting go, Toyota came out with an
updated design and put them in all the trucks, they let go too, a 3rd
design was put in and that aparently was a good one but I know some of
them let go including mine and I had to pay for that one. Really the
problem was with the expansion and contraction of the head in relation
to the block and no gasket was going to be able to compensate. Toyota
did extend the warranty or rather the miles the recall was good for I
think but they would not replace a failure of the 3rd generation gasket
regardless of miles since their company line was they fixed it so it
ain't broke. In the end I think you have to look at these as a long
interval maintence item like a timing belt because they just don't last
forever.

 

[John O]

In the end I think you have to look at these as a long

interval maintence item like a timing belt because they just don't last
forever.

Is there any way to find out exactly which vehicles are involved? I'm not so
sure my name is tied to this vehicle with SOA...

-John O

 

[TG]

Subaru rep told me that it wasn't a recall and probably never would be
because it wasn't a safety issue. I could have been wrong for trusting his
info and I will check it out. TG

 

[X-Eliminator]

I own a 2001 Forester and got a "customer satisfaction" (ie - recall?)
letter from Subaru of America yesterday. This letter recommends "as a
precautionary measure" that "a special conditioner be added to the
engine cooling system of certain 1999 through 2002 model year Subaru
vehicles equipped with 2.5 liter engines". It goes on to say that this
recommendation is made "to prevent a possible external coolant leak at
your vehicle's engine cylinder head gaskets".

It recommends having this Subaru Cooling System Conditioner added as
soon as possible (at a Subaru dealership, of course), at no cost (this
time). It then says that, "In the future, it will be necessary to add
Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner to your vehicle's cooling
system whenever the engine coolant is replaced".

Has anyone else gotten this letter? Are the head gaskets really at risk
without this treatment and, if so, shouldn't Subaru be recalling and
replacing an engine part rather than requiring owner's to take an extra
step when replacing coolant? I mean -- other cars don't require this
added step, so is there an inherent problem with the Subaru that they
are trying to address on the cheap?

I'm no mechanic, but I never heard of something like this.....

Bert

Do you have a link to the Subaru website for this ?

 

[Wayne Farmer]

Do you have a link to the Subaru website for this ?

The official link is
http://techinfo.subaru.com/html/downloadPdf.jsp?doc_id=42513 ,
but I believe that will require you to pay a fee. The recall notice has
been posted, with discussion, at these sites:

http://tinyurl.com/2hyxt

http://tinyurl.com/2dcmx

Wayne

 

[Y.H. Shen]

I have a 96 Outback 2.5L and looks like I'll be facing with this sooner or
later. Will buying a car with IRON block and heads not having these
problems? Who still make engine with iron block and heads?

-Steve