Subaru Outback Wagon cooling system leak Engine overheating

Discussion in 'Subaru Outback' started by yyeessyy, Jul 10, 2004.

  1. yyeessyy

    yyeessyy Guest

    while driving on interstate, my 2001 OutbackWagon radiator suddenly failed
    and my engine got overheated. dealer found a leak in the middle of this 3
    year old radiator(I couldn't see any obvious hole when they showed me the
    dismounted radiator, they said the leak must be between the leaves where
    eyes can't see) and said this was the cause of the engine overheat, but
    they can't tell me what caused the radiator to leak. my car is only 42k
    miles(within 60k power train warranty),but Subaru of America refused to
    cover this by their warranty since the damage is caused by radiator ,
    which is not covered by warranty any more.

    However, Subaru is ensuthiastic in persuading me into purchasing a new
    2004 subaru, they said they would assist me with 2,500 dollars. but the
    trade-in price my dealer offered for my 2001 outback is only 6,200
    dollars.(I paid 25K for my limited outback only three years ago, and it's
    also very expensive to maintain this vehicle for 3 years)

    Has anybody had any similar experience?
    Should I go ahead buy another subbie?
    If I buy a new subbie, can I do maintenance at other garages instead of
    subaru dealer?

    I spent thousands of dollars per year doing services at dealership. But
    they act as if they had nothing to do with this radiator failure and the
    engine damage is all my fault.

    Does anyone know what could possibly caused the radiator to suddenly fail?
    I did n't even smell any sweet smell as they said I should have smelled.
    (when I told them this, the subaru service manager said he was not with me
    when the engine overheated)
     
    yyeessyy, Jul 10, 2004
    #1
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  2. yyeessyy

    Henry Paul Guest

    What kind of damage was done to the engine? You shouldn't need anything more
    than just a radiator unless there was some serious damage done. I have had a
    few cars overheat without any major damage.
     
    Henry Paul, Jul 10, 2004
    #2
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  3. yyeessyy

    Hallraker Guest

    I drove about 12 miles with the temperature gauge pegged at the top on my
    '95 Outback w/ 167,000 miles. That was like 3-4 summers and at least 50,000
    miles ago. And unless you count the alternator last year, I haven't done
    anything to that car as far as repairs are concerned, only
    brakes/tires/shocks.

    -Matt
     
    Hallraker, Jul 11, 2004
    #3
  4. yyeessyy

    Fredisg Guest

    but the
    This is a silly trade in amount as long as your car is not beat. You could
    sell it privately after you repair it for quite a bit more, almost double that!
    My 2001 OBW has not been an inexpensive car to maintain either, unlike my wifes
    Accord which except for timing belts has been very inexpensive.

    Are you sure you didn't blow a head gasket? These engines have been blowing
    them left and right and there is a recall on them. This involves the same
    thing: coolant leaks and overheating.

    I will NOT. This is my first and last. It just so happens that my dealer is
    OUTSTANDING! But, this OBW is the most trouble prone car I have had out of the
    past six cars except perhaps for my Turbo Volvo. (Honda Accord, Merc.
    Moutaineer, Nissan Quest, Acura Legend, Chev. Cavalier, Nissan Stanza)
    In my three years of ownership (52K), I have had constant steering pulling to
    one side or the other, shaking steering wheel not aleviated by replacing
    original tires at 40 K, blown headgasket, Premature front brake pad
    replacement at 26k, (my other cars last 36-60k for front pads), terrible wind
    noise in the front windows, Two recalls, lights dimming with no reason, driving
    light flashing off and on with no dealer fix, alternator light flashing on a
    few times per hour, but no problem able to be diagnosed. Exhaust resonances at
    certain rpm's dealer unable to identify or fix, defective washer pump, and
    these are just the things I remember.

    For the bad snowy days it's ok.
     
    Fredisg, Jul 11, 2004
    #4
  5. yyeessyy

    Henry Paul Guest

    Gee, it sounds like my jeep I had. :)

    I have an Impreza built in Asia as I think the whole line is and I haven't
    had any problems so far. I am the second owner at 100k and the original
    owner had no problems other than routine maintenance.

    I have heard comments before about the US built product lines. It looks like
    there is some merit to the question of the reliability of the models built
    here.

    I must agree though that for $6,200 they are not even being close to fair
    with you.
     
    Henry Paul, Jul 11, 2004
    #5
  6. yyeessyy

    Jim Stewart Guest

    Without a doubt, the radiator was made
    in Japan. Don't be so quick to blame
    US workers.
     
    Jim Stewart, Jul 11, 2004
    #6
  7. yyeessyy

    Henry Paul Guest

    So you have an explanation for all of the other failures as well then.
     
    Henry Paul, Jul 11, 2004
    #7
  8. yyeessyy

    Henry Paul Guest

    I never said anything about American workers, that was your assumption. If
    anything it seems American corporations are greedy. Rather than build a
    reliable vehicle that will last for years and hundreds of thousands of miles
    it seems to be a bigger money maker to build one that will last less than
    ten years and costs thousands and thousands in repairs in the process
    causing you to turn around and buy another one right after that.
     
    Henry Paul, Jul 11, 2004
    #8
  9. yyeessyy

    Jim Stewart Guest

    I don't know what the hell you are talking about.

    He had a defective radiator. You implied that
    it was becasue the vehicle was made in the US.
    I pointed out that the *defective* radiator was
    made in Japan. We are not talking about any other
    failures.

    Now, If you want to talk about shoddy US products,
    I can tell you an earfull about the two Taruses I
    owned. But I'll spare you the details.

    I've worked in manufacturing since 1972. I've
    worked in a Japanese factory in Tokyo for 6 months,
    a privilege few US engineers have enjoyed. I have
    my own company that manufactures products here in
    the US. I have a pretty good idea of what it takes
    to build a quality product:

    1. Good engineering. If it's not designed right,
    it will never work right. Suburu is good but
    not perfect. Oil seals that leak after 80k
    miles are an engineering defect. Head gaskets
    that blow are an engineering defect. Coolant
    additive is not an engineering fix for marginal
    head gaskets. To the best of my knowledge, all
    the Subaru design engineers are in Japan, not
    the US.

    2. A driving goal of shipping a quality product.
    Closed-loop manufacturing process that identifies
    problems and fixes them as soon as possible.
    I don't know anything about Subaru's quality
    programs or the motivation of their production
    workers. All I know is that only defects I've
    found (and they are few) in my '99 Legacy, I'd
    blame on engineering, not manufacturing.

    I've crawled all over my car. I've not seen one
    manufacturing defect. Do you suppose I'm just lucky?
    I've followed the posts on this group and I've not
    heard anything to convince me that Subaru Japan
    turns out a better car than Subaru US. You've
    not convinced me with your ad hominem criticism
    of US workers.

    Like I've said before, buy a Japanese-built car
    if you like. I don't care. Just try to treat
    your fellow Americans fairly.
     
    Jim Stewart, Jul 11, 2004
    #9
  10. yyeessyy

    Henry Paul Guest

    This is what the hell I was talking about:

    "I will NOT. This is my first and last. It just so happens that my dealer
    is
    OUTSTANDING! But, this OBW is the most trouble prone car I have had out of
    the
    past six cars except perhaps for my Turbo Volvo. (Honda Accord, Merc.
    Moutaineer, Nissan Quest, Acura Legend, Chev. Cavalier, Nissan Stanza)
    In my three years of ownership (52K), I have had constant steering pulling
    to
    one side or the other, shaking steering wheel not aleviated by replacing
    original tires at 40 K, blown headgasket, Premature front brake pad
    replacement at 26k, (my other cars last 36-60k for front pads), terrible
    wind
    noise in the front windows, Two recalls, lights dimming with no reason,
    driving
    light flashing off and on with no dealer fix, alternator light flashing on a
    few times per hour, but no problem able to be diagnosed. Exhaust resonances
    at
    certain rpm's dealer unable to identify or fix, defective washer pump, and
    these are just the things I remember."

    I was replying to a reply. Maybe you are not talking about any other
    failures, but the other two people in the thread and I were. Maybe you ought
    to learn how to read a thread before you go sticking your foot in your
    mouth. Not to mention putting words in mine.

    "I have heard comments before about the US built product lines. It looks
    like
    there is some merit to the question of the reliability of the models built
    here."

    That was my whole comment right there. Never at all at any time did I imply
    that the reason the radiator failed was because the car was built in the US.
    That is your own fabrication. I was merely making an observation. The fact
    the we are talking about US and Japanese product lines is circumstantial
    evidence. I suggest learning how to read before attempting to read between
    the lines.

    You talk about my Ad Hominiem attack on US workers, and yet you are the one
    that attacks the Ford car. I find that interesting. You assume from my
    comment that I somehow imply US workers are to blame. I don't even know
    where that came from. I find it humorous that in accusing me of using a
    fallacy you use a couple of your own.

    I also find it humorous that you automatically insist faulty engineering is
    to blame since "you" can't find any manufacturing defect. As far as I know,
    only assembly is performed in the US from Japanese or wherever made parts,
    so how is it exactly that I was attacking US workers never having mentioned
    US workers? There are 3 processes that I can see. Engineering is charts on
    paper. You have to make the parts and then assemble them. You already stated
    the parts are made in Japan from engineering plans also made in Japan, so
    where again did I attack US workers?

    So, how do you know that leaky oil seals and head gaskets are engineering
    defects? The only seals I have had leak are _aftermarket_. Now I guess you
    are going to assume I am blaming US workers for shoddy aftermarket parts? I
    doubt we make those parts either.

    As far as buying a Japanese car, my Subaru is the first foreign car I have
    owned _period_. I do my own repair work so I can say that the Impreza
    engineers can engineer circles around the Jeep engineers. I can say that
    from having worked on both. I can also tell you that a number of our very
    own home grown cars are built with Japanese and wherever parts. If you don't
    believe me, you should do some homework.
     
    Henry Paul, Jul 11, 2004
    #10
  11. yyeessyy

    yyeessyy Guest

    What kind of damage was done to the engine? You shouldn't need anything
    more
    than just a radiator unless there was some serious damage done. I have
    had
    a
    few cars overheat without any major damage.

    --
    Henry Paul

    I don't know exactly. they told me after replacing the radiator they test
    drive the vehicle, the temp gauge soar above the red line within 30
    seconds.then the exhaust will blow bubbles out of coolant tank.

    Shengyi Ye
     
    yyeessyy, Jul 11, 2004
    #11
  12. yyeessyy

    yyeessyy Guest

    Are you sure you didn't blow a head gasket? These >engines have been
    first,thanks for everybody who replied here. before I came here,
    everything i knew was what dealer told me. the views from third party are
    precious.

    I think the head gasket is blown now, cause the exhaust are coming out of
    the coolant tank after test drive.
    but subaru service center told me it's caused by failure of cooling system
    and continue driving after that.

    thanks,
    Shengyi
     
    yyeessyy, Jul 11, 2004
    #12
  13. yyeessyy

    Henry Paul Guest

    That's a head gasket. You have exhaust gas leaking into the water jacket.
    That will cause it to overheat. You probably have antifreeze leaking into
    the engine oil. Check you oil and see if it looks really frothy like a
    chocolate mousse.
     
    Henry Paul, Jul 11, 2004
    #13
  14. yyeessyy

    yyeessyy Guest

    This is a silly trade in amount as long as your car is >not beat. You
    Can we actually service the car else where other than subaru service
    center with out loosing the warranty?
     
    yyeessyy, Jul 11, 2004
    #14
  15. yyeessyy

    yyeessyy Guest

    This is a silly trade in amount as long as your car is >not beat. You
    Can we actually service the car else where other than subaru service
    center with out loosing the warranty?
     
    yyeessyy, Jul 11, 2004
    #15
  16. yyeessyy

    Henry Paul Guest

    I see what they are saying now. There is a recall on head gaskets on the
    engine, but since the blown radiator caused the head gasket to blow, they
    refuse to service it under warranty.

    You most certainly do NOT want to continue driving it unless it is a few
    blocks to have it serviced. If you are getting exhaust gas into the coolant,
    you can get coolant into the engine oil. This will cause serious damage to
    the engine beyond what has already happened.

    I would get some quotes from around town and see who is willing to do the
    job and for the cheapest price. Since you can't get it done under warranty,
    I see no reason to give the dealer the money. The choice is yours.
     
    Henry Paul, Jul 11, 2004
    #16
  17. yyeessyy

    Henry Paul Guest

    For that I am not sure. I would ask another dealer though and not the one
    you went to. They are likely to tell you it will void the warranty just to
    get you to have the work done there. Ask around and get some opinions first
    before you decide.
     
    Henry Paul, Jul 11, 2004
    #17
  18. yyeessyy

    yyeessyy Guest

    drove about 12 miles with the temperature gauge pegged >at the top on my
    -Matt

    we were on the insterstate when we noticed the check engine light turned
    on. I was on passenger side couldn't see the temp gauge at all. the temp
    gauge was way above the red line.

    we pulled off the road immediately and opened the hood. the coolant was
    boiling, and lid of the coolant reserve blown open with steam coming out
    of it. I could see a small amount of coolant at the bottom of tank with
    lots of bubbles.

    I also saw some splash dots of green coolant on the bottom side of coolant
    cover. was it caused by any kind of explosion in the middle of radiator?

    dealer told me the knock senser was melted.they needed to replace it
    before test drive. do you think the engine could be totally damaged while
    there is still coolant left in the radiator(though not much)?

    Shengyi
     
    yyeessyy, Jul 11, 2004
    #18
  19. yyeessyy

    yyeessyy Guest

    drove about 12 miles with the temperature gauge pegged >at the top on my
    -Matt

    we were on the insterstate when we noticed the check engine light turned
    on. I was on passenger side couldn't see the temp gauge at all. the temp
    gauge was way above the red line.

    we pulled off the road immediately and opened the hood. the coolant was
    boiling, and lid of the coolant reserve blown open with steam coming out
    of it. I could see a small amount of coolant at the bottom of tank with
    lots of bubbles.

    I also saw some splash dots of green coolant on the bottom side of coolant
    cover. was it caused by any kind of explosion in the middle of radiator?

    dealer told me the knock senser was melted.they needed to replace it
    before test drive. do you think the engine could be totally damaged while
    there is still coolant left in the radiator(though not much)?

    Shengyi
     
    yyeessyy, Jul 11, 2004
    #19
  20. yyeessyy

    yyeessyy Guest

    u r saying it's an internal leak of head gasket?but the dealer insisted
    that the coolant was leaked out first and caused the head gasket to leak
    as a result. they still won't cover it. I told them the the head gasket
    could leak internally first and cause an explosive leak in the radiator.
    but they said that kind of explosion will happen first on those rubber
    hoses instead of metal radiator itself.
     
    yyeessyy, Jul 11, 2004
    #20
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