Stuck on Ice

[FL]

I was stuck on the ice on my steep driveway in my 2002 Inpreza. One
front wheel & one rear wheel were on dry spots, but the wheels on the
ice kept spinning. What happened to transferring power from "the wheels
that slip to the wheels that grip"? Was my car malfunctioning, or is
there something else I should know? FL

 

[Freedom55]

I was stuck on the ice on my steep driveway in my 2002 Inpreza. One
front wheel & one rear wheel were on dry spots, but the wheels on the
ice kept spinning. What happened to transferring power from "the wheels
that slip to the wheels that grip"? Was my car malfunctioning, or is
there something else I should know? FL

You don't have a limited slip diff.

Ron

 

[FL]

You don't have a limited slip diff.

Ron

Then what good is AWD?

 

[Danny Russell]

I was stuck on the ice on my steep driveway in my 2002 Inpreza. One
front wheel & one rear wheel were on dry spots, but the wheels on the
ice kept spinning. What happened to transferring power from "the wheels
that slip to the wheels that grip"? Was my car malfunctioning, or is
there something else I should know? FL

Yes, apply a little brake along with throttle and away you go.

 

[Freedom55]

I was stuck on the ice on my steep driveway in my 2002 Inpreza. One
front wheel & one rear wheel were on dry spots, but the wheels on the
ice kept spinning. What happened to transferring power from "the wheels
that slip to the wheels that grip"? Was my car malfunctioning, or is
there something else I should know? FL

My advice. Your next Subie should have LSD. To my knowledge only the WRX
variants of the Impressa line have LSD.

This was a factor in my decision to buy a 2005 Outback Wagon.

Ron

 

[TG]

You should have opted for the limited slip differential...then it would have
crawled up in two wheel drive. My VR4 has limited slip in the center and
rear diffs and it's a friggin snowmobile.
The good news is you can get an aftermarket limited slip (Phantom Grip,
ETC) for very little money. TG

 

[FL]

Yes, apply a little brake along with throttle and away you go.

Thank you

 

[Yousuf Khan]

I was stuck on the ice on my steep driveway in my 2002 Inpreza. One
front wheel & one rear wheel were on dry spots, but the wheels on the
ice kept spinning. What happened to transferring power from "the wheels
that slip to the wheels that grip"? Was my car malfunctioning, or is
there something else I should know? FL

What kind of transmission do you have, the manual or automatic?
Typically the superior base-level all-wheel drive system comes with the
manual transmission. Subaru actually has about three or four different
all-wheel drive systems, more if you count their variants.

The base-level manual tranny AWD system is superior to the base-level
auto tranny AWD, even though the former is a completely mechanical
system (no electronics whatsoever in it) while the latter has
electronics. Then in the higher-end models you get the more
sophisticated electronic AWD systems, such as the OB VDC or the STi,
which are in a league of their own.

I guess another question to ask is are you sure you had some tires on
dry spots? If it was that icy in your area, then chances are likely that
all four wheels were on some form of ice. When all the wheels are on
ice, you're not going anywhere, AWD or not.

Yousuf Khan

 

[David Betts]

Thank you

Or simply apply less throttle in the first place. You might also want
to try starting in second. Most people's inputs in ice and snow
conditions are much too vigorous. Imagine a raw egg between your foot
and the throttle.

David Betts
(e-mail address removed)

 

[pickle]

My advice. Your next Subie should have LSD. To my knowledge only the WRX
variants of the Impressa line have LSD.

This was a factor in my decision to buy a 2005 Outback Wagon.

Ron

Does the 2004 OBW have LSD?
Didn't know there was a choice.

 

[l.lichtman]

Responding to your last point: If all four wheels were on ice, and
spinning, I would expect the car to slide backwards when the throttle
was released.

 

[phillystyle]

I had something interesting happen last winter, and I tried it a couple of
times to make sure it wasn't just some kind of fluke -- in fact, it was
kind of fun. Maybe somebody could shed a little light on it.

OK, it was my first winter with my new Baja and I couldn't wait for snow
season. When it finally did snow I had a great time. There was a
shopping mall nearing completion near my house and the empty parking lot
was a sheet of ice so I had to see how the Baja would handle that. I
slowly rolled out to a point where all four wheels were on the ice and
came to a complete stop. I was able to give it a little throttle and get
forward motion without any problem which it more or less what I expected.
I also found that if I was at full stop and gave it a bit more throttle,
the car would actually, "spin" in a tight circle. I don't mean turn in a
circle but it was almost like there was a spindle in the middle of the car
and it would spin like a propeller thought clearly not THAT fast. I'm not
talking spinning so fast as to make you dizzy, just a slow tight rotation.
As I said, I tried it a couple of times and thought, "Hey, that's cool"
and that was the end of it but nobody else I've talked to about it has
seen this happen. I figured it was an AWD thing where I guess say, your
front drivers side wheel is turning and your rear passenger side wheel is
turning that might happen. Does that make sense? Is that how the system
even works? Am I crazy . . . insane? Has anybody else experienced this.
Thanks.

 

[phillystyle]

I had something interesting happen last winter, and I tried it a couple of
times to make sure it wasn't just some kind of fluke -- in fact, it was
kind of fun. Maybe somebody could shed a little light on it.

OK, it was my first winter with my new Baja and I couldn't wait for snow
season. When it finally did snow I had a great time. There was a
shopping mall nearing completion near my house and the empty parking lot
was a sheet of ice so I had to see how the Baja would handle that. I
slowly rolled out to a point where all four wheels were on the ice and
came to a complete stop. I was able to give it a little throttle and get
forward motion without any problem which it more or less what I expected.
I also found that if I was at full stop and gave it a bit more throttle,
the car would actually, "spin" in a tight circle. I don't mean turn in a
circle but it was almost like there was a spindle in the middle of the car
and it would spin like a propeller thought clearly not THAT fast. I'm not
talking spinning so fast as to make you dizzy, just a slow tight rotation.
As I said, I tried it a couple of times and thought, "Hey, that's cool"
and that was the end of it but nobody else I've talked to about it has
seen this happen. I figured it was an AWD thing where I guess say, your
front drivers side wheel is turning and your rear passenger side wheel is
turning that might happen. Does that make sense? Is that how the system
even works? Am I crazy . . . insane? Has anybody else experienced this.
Thanks.

 

[Danny Russell]

I was stuck on the ice on my steep driveway in my 2002 Inpreza. One
front wheel & one rear wheel were on dry spots, but the wheels on the
ice kept spinning. What happened to transferring power from "the wheels
that slip to the wheels that grip"? Was my car malfunctioning, or is
there something else I should know? FL

Just like the Hummer H1 (the real Hummer, not the soccer-mom H2 Hummer), you have open diffs in the
front and rear.

The technique as described in the H1's operation manual is that is if a situation occurs such that
both the front and rear differential become overloaded, a light application of the brake pedal will
allow manual re-distribution of power.

Open diffs have the advantage of greater directional control in sudden slippery situations. LSD's
can tend to sometimes trade foreward thrust for lateral movement (fishtail).

Tires are the most important factor for winter driving. Lousy tires suck with RWD, FWD, AWD, 4WD,
LSD, etc.

 

[CompUser]

Just like the Hummer H1 (the real Hummer, not the soccer-mom H2 Hummer), you have open diffs in the
front and rear.

The *real* real Hummer (the guv'mint model) has
Gleason Torsens, front & rear. That puppy don't
_wanna_ get stuck, you really gotta work at it!

 

[pickle]

I had something interesting happen last winter, and I tried it a couple of
times to make sure it wasn't just some kind of fluke -- in fact, it was
kind of fun. Maybe somebody could shed a little light on it.

OK, it was my first winter with my new Baja and I couldn't wait for snow
season. When it finally did snow I had a great time. There was a
shopping mall nearing completion near my house and the empty parking lot
was a sheet of ice so I had to see how the Baja would handle that. I
slowly rolled out to a point where all four wheels were on the ice and
came to a complete stop. I was able to give it a little throttle and get
forward motion without any problem which it more or less what I expected.
I also found that if I was at full stop and gave it a bit more throttle,
the car would actually, "spin" in a tight circle. I don't mean turn in a
circle but it was almost like there was a spindle in the middle of the car
and it would spin like a propeller thought clearly not THAT fast. I'm not
talking spinning so fast as to make you dizzy, just a slow tight rotation.
As I said, I tried it a couple of times and thought, "Hey, that's cool"
and that was the end of it but nobody else I've talked to about it has
seen this happen. I figured it was an AWD thing where I guess say, your
front drivers side wheel is turning and your rear passenger side wheel is
turning that might happen. Does that make sense? Is that how the system
even works? Am I crazy . . . insane? Has anybody else experienced this.
Thanks.

Negative on the AWD thing. I used to have a rear wheel drive Celica
that would do that. It was great fun to go down an empty road and do a
spindle turn at the end for a 180 in the opposite direction.

 

[Danny Russell]

The *real* real Hummer (the guv'mint model) has
Gleason Torsens, front & rear. That puppy don't
_wanna_ get stuck, you really gotta work at it!

Steve, in a C&D H1 mag review several years back (I don't have the issue anymore), I clearly recall
the author outlining the proceedure for using the brake as a means of redistributing the power to
all four corners. The scenario was such that would put the vehicle in a position where opposite
corners were not in contact with the ground (rock crawling). This was demonstrated to them by an
AMG rep who accompianied them throughout the test to help show off the vehicles capabilities. Maybe
that's a weakness of the torsen, I don't know.

 

[CompUser]

Steve, in a C&D H1 mag review several years back (I don't have the issue anymore), I clearly recall

the author outlining the proceedure for using the brake as a means of redistributing the power to
all four corners. The scenario was such that would put the vehicle in a position where opposite
corners were not in contact with the ground (rock crawling). This was demonstrated to them by an
AMG rep who accompianied them throughout the test to help show off the vehicles capabilities. Maybe
that's a weakness of the torsen, I don't know.

To be honest, I don't know if the milspec HMMWVs
still have the Gleasons or not...my understanding
of that goes wayyyyy back ;-) As far as brake
application to get things mixed around, that
sounds right to me. Now, just to mix all *that*
together, one of the claimed advantages to the
Gleason Torsens (again, going wayyyy back here)
was that they'd actuate/redistribute even if the
"slipping" wheel had zero traction, eg one wheel
was up in free air, like your rock-crawling
scenario. The other lockers/LSDs (Detroit Locker
is the only one that comes to mind at the moment)
of the time required *some* degree of
drag/friction on the slipping wheel, or they
wouldn't function...which suggests that some
brake action in that kind of situation would be
good medicine.

 

[Richard]

I found out by accident that if you put the emergency brake on and apply the
gas only the front wheels spin. The rear one remained locked.

 

[Jim Stewart]

I found out by accident that if you put the emergency brake on and apply the
gas only the front wheels spin. The rear one remained locked.

Sounds like a quick way to destroy your
viscous coupling.