Still Subaru hunting...

[Bradley Walker]

Hey all,

I'm still car shopping for a good Subaru Outback Wagon 2001-2002 models and
I have found quite a few in the Northern VA region which look outstanding.
Although as we all know outward looks can be and most always are fooling.
Before I goto check out this vehicles what info do I need to know regarding
what to look for in case there is something bad with the motor,
transmission, or anything else? I also know there were a few recalls
recently for various odds and in's, what Outback models were affected for
this?

Also since I highly value the opinion of posters here, I would like to know
if the price is right or too high on some of these vehicles I've found for
the mileage/features they have:

1.) 2001 Outback Wagon Limited Edition; WineGreen/Gold color; Auto;
Power S/B/Windows/Locks; Sunroof; $
2.) 1997 Outback Wagon; Forrest Green/Silver color; Auto; 80,000
miles; Power S/B/Windows/Locks; AMFM; 6Mon/7500ml PT warranty; $7,350.00
3.) 1997 Outback Wagon; Burgundy/Silver color; Auto; 49,920 miles;
$8,995.00
4.) 2003 Outback Wagon H6; White/Gold color; Auto; 18,869 miles;
6cyl; 3.0L; DOHC; $19,986.00
5.) 2002 Outback Wagon; White/Gold color; Auto; 50,295 miles; Auto;
CD; Power S/B/Windows/Locks; $15,900.00
6.) 2001 Outback Wagon Limited Edition; Burgundy/Gold color; 5spd
Manual; Air; Power S/B/Windows/Locks; $
7.) 2000 Outback Wagon Limited Edition; White/Gold color; Auto; 61,469
miles; Power S/B/Windows/Locks; Leather; Sunroof; $13,900.00
8.) 1999 Outback Wagon; Burgundy/Silver color; Auto; Power
S/B/Windows/Locks; CD; $
9.) 1999 Outback Wagon; Forrest Green/Grey color; Auto; 76,000 miles;
Power S/B/Windows/Locks; AMFM Cassette; $
10.) 2002 Outback Wagon; White/Gold color; Auto; Air $
11.) 2003 Outback Wagon; Navy Blue/Gold color; Auto; 7,000 miles; $
12.) 2004 Outback Wagon; White/Gold color; Auto; Air; CD; $

 

[John A. Mason]

Also since I highly value the opinion of posters here, I would like to
know if the price is right or too high on some of these vehicles I've
found for the mileage/features they have:

1.) 2001 Outback Wagon Limited Edition; WineGreen/Gold color; Auto;
Power S/B/Windows/Locks; Sunroof; $
2.) 1997 Outback Wagon; Forrest Green/Silver color; Auto; 80,000
miles; Power S/B/Windows/Locks; AMFM; 6Mon/7500ml PT warranty;
$7,350.00
3.) 1997 Outback Wagon; Burgundy/Silver color; Auto; 49,920 miles;
$8,995.00
4.) 2003 Outback Wagon H6; White/Gold color; Auto; 18,869 miles;
6cyl; 3.0L; DOHC; $19,986.00
5.) 2002 Outback Wagon; White/Gold color; Auto; 50,295 miles; Auto;
CD; Power S/B/Windows/Locks; $15,900.00
6.) 2001 Outback Wagon Limited Edition; Burgundy/Gold color; 5spd
Manual; Air; Power S/B/Windows/Locks; $
7.) 2000 Outback Wagon Limited Edition; White/Gold color; Auto;
61,469 miles; Power S/B/Windows/Locks; Leather; Sunroof; $13,900.00
8.) 1999 Outback Wagon; Burgundy/Silver color; Auto; Power
S/B/Windows/Locks; CD; $
9.) 1999 Outback Wagon; Forrest Green/Grey color; Auto; 76,000 miles;
Power S/B/Windows/Locks; AMFM Cassette; $
10.) 2002 Outback Wagon; White/Gold color; Auto; Air $
11.) 2003 Outback Wagon; Navy Blue/Gold color; Auto; 7,000 miles; $
12.) 2004 Outback Wagon; White/Gold color; Auto; Air; CD; $

I am suspicious of most of the mileages listed. I mean think about it....
97 w/80,000 = 10000 per year
97 w/49,920 = 6240 per year (!!)
02 w/50,295 = 16765 per year (OK... that's reasonable)
00 w/61,469 = 12293 per year (hmm... on a Subaru?)
99 w/76,000 = 12667 per year
03 w/7,000 = 3500 per year

It's not just these examples, nor just Subarus... over and over again I see
figures like this. It's ridiculous. There's no way you can tell me odometers
are not being tampered with. I know in my experience I average around 13,500
per year until about 5 years ago when I moved to a rural area and my annual
mileage has been around 15,500 (my '02 VDC H6 is just over 3 yrs old and has
47,700 miles on it).
I also know that I do not drive my car alot, compared to most people I know.
I know people that brag about putting 20,000 miles or more on their cars per
year.

Something's fishy.
John

 

[Bonehenge]

I am suspicious of most of the mileages listed. I mean think about it....
97 w/80,000 = 10000 per year
97 w/49,920 = 6240 per year (!!)
02 w/50,295 = 16765 per year (OK... that's reasonable)
00 w/61,469 = 12293 per year (hmm... on a Subaru?)
99 w/76,000 = 12667 per year
03 w/7,000 = 3500 per year

I have an '01 for sale with 38k. 38 x 4 = 9500 per year. This car
replaced a 5 year old Nissan pickup with 37k. 37 x 5 = 7400 per year.
Our 6 year old Jeep Wrangler currently has 45k on the clock. I bought
all the cars new.

#1 Some folks have more than one car.
#2 Other folks have company vehicles provided to them that don't allow
weekend usage.
#3 Some vehicles are leased with low mileage limits (NOT MINE!)
#4 Many dealerships do not want high mileage vehicles, you'll usually
see them being sold by private parties or kept to the grave.
#5 Some folks make lifestyle choices to avoid commuting.

I sell my used vehicles myself, never trading them. The buyers have
commented on several occasions that private party sales rarely have
low mileage.

FWIW, My in laws frequently drive less than 4k a year, total between
two cars.

It's not that weird.

Barry

 

[jabario]

I've got 40k on my 04 OBW that I bought on 1/17/04. I hope to kepp it
til 200k miles.

 

[lkreh]

I don't think the mileages you listed are too goofy. I can probably
give the most extreme example of anyone on this forum about mileage.
In early 2002, we bought a one-owner 99 OBW with 97,000 miles on it.
The odomoter now reads 117,000 miles. That means the original owner
put about 27,000-30,000 miles per year on it, and we've put about 6,600
miles per year on it. There are simply cars out there with owners who
put a lot and a little miles on them.

As far as price, the prices you listed aren't too goofy, maybe a tiny
bit on the high side.

Personally, I'd totally avoid the 1996 and 2000 outbacks, and would
also shy away from the 1997 and 2001 outbacks. The 98-99 and 02-04
outbacks were very well sorted out, though.

my two duckets,
LK

 

[Bradley Walker]

Thanks for that info. May I ask what was the reasoning to shy away from the
97/01 and the 96/00 models? Any particular defects or what not?

(Note to self, my own messages aren't showing up in the group)

 

[Bradley Walker]

This is a pricing list I just got from a salesman at one lot. The prices
tend to be high ...

Hope the following information helps. Most everything we have right now are
basic Outbacks with automatic trans, AC, CD players, some with heated seats.
We have the one 2001 Ltd as you indicated with the the moon roof, leather,
and 6-disc CD. Here's the list of vehicles including VIN's, mileage, and
price.

2004....

1. Green/Titanium 4S3 BH6750 47646139 17,417 miles $21,999
2. Green/Titanium 4S3 BH6757 47636806 25,387 miles $21,999

2003....

3. Green/Titanium 4S3 BH6752 36604542 27,182 miles $18,999

2002....

4. Blue/Titanium 4S3 BH6754 27625209 61,157 miles $17,995

2001....

5. Blue/Gray 4S3 BH6753 17673623 44,355 miles $16,999
6. Green/Gray Ltd. 4S3 BH6869 17634378 53,247 miles $18,478

2000....

7. White/Gray 4S3 BH6756 Y7650525 93,871 miles $11,999

1997....

8. Green/Gray 4S3 BG6852 V7630608 120,124 miles $7968

 

[l.lichtman]

High mileage may not necessarily indicate a worn-out car. I just
bought a '99 with 112,000 miles on it, but the general condition of the
car suggested that they must have been mostly freeway miles, because
the car looked and ran like new. This kind of mileage produces less
wear and tear on: brakes, upholstery, suspension, engine, door and
window hardware, steering linkage, etc.

 

[P T]

John M wrote

...I know people that brag about
putting 20,000 miles or more
on their cars per year. Something's fishy.

I know what you mean. Why on earth would someone brag about how many
hours they sit in their cars, probably stuck in traffic? Driving is a
necessary evil of our "civilized" society. An hour driving is an hour
lost out of our dwindling time on earth.
Next time one of those nuts starts bragging about how much they love
driving, ask them, if it is so wonderful, do they spend hours on end
sitting in their car when it's parked in the garage?

Iconoclast Pete

 

[jabario]

May not be "worn out" but it will definitely need some repairs in the
future. Subes may get to 200k regularly but the maintenance costs go
up after 100k . I'd be cautious spending ,ore than $2000 on a car with
100k + miles.

 

[Florian Feuser /FFF/]

May not be "worn out" but it will definitely
need some repairs in the
future. Subes may get to 200k regularly but the maintenance costs
go up after 100k . I'd be cautious spending ,ore than $2000 on a
car with 100k + miles.

You won't find a Subaru (or any Japanese car) for $2000 at 100k.
The OP however posted as one alternative:

1997....
8. Green/Gray 4S3 BG6852 V7630608 120,124 miles $7968

That's bit high, IMHO except with a complete engine overhaul including
new gaskets, seals and belts and a warranty.

florian /FFF/

 

[jabario]

$8k with NO warranty at all. Anyone who would pay that must love to
gamble.

 

[Bradley Walker]

Those were the prices I were given from the dealership/car lot after I
phoned in and played mr stupid when talking to them. It'll give me a
starting point to work my way downward quite a bit hopefully. My explorer
(I got it for $2000, `93 4door 4wd) has a dead cylender, I think the
steering is going and I refuse to get much work done on it. I'd rather have
a Subaru with great gas mileage (hey it's better than the 10mpg i'm getting
now).

Mainly the orginial post was asking about anything I should be aware of
specific to Subaru's when starting to negotiate the price.

 

[lkreh]

There were a number of particular defects in the 1996 and 2000 MY OBs,
which is not atypical of the first model year of any redesigned car. I
can't list them all. Many of the problems persisted in the 1997 and
2001 MYs. Again, I'd buy a 98-99 or 02-04 MY OB. Maybe I'm preaching
to the choir, but if you're buying a used Subaru, you definitely need
to do some research on systems reliability (powertrain, elec., etc.).
See Edmunds.com or the used car Consumer Buyer's Guide at the
bookstore. You're not going to get any useable feedback from posting
here -- you need legitimate statistics to hedge your bet.

Re your prices, I still think they're a bit high, but assuming they're
negotiable, you should be fine. With some negotiation, I would expect
a dealer to accept an offer on a used Subie that is 10% less than
dealer's asking price. You might be able to do better, but if you
can't get a dealer to come down 10% on a used Subaru, I'd walk without
even bothering to say goodby.

-LK

 

[lkreh]

I took another look at the prices you most recently listed. On second
thought, they're more than a little high. When my dealer started to
receive the 2005 Outbacks, it cleared out all of its remaining NEW 2004
Outbacks. The asking price on the remaining NEW '04s was $19,900
(2.5L, cloth seats, auto trans, cold weather pkg). If your dealer is
asking $21,999 for a used '04 Outback with 25,387 miles and basic
equipment, he should be jailed. That's more than Kelly blue book used
retail ($21.385), which is already fantasyland.

-LK

 

[Dom]

Bradley,

May I offer some advise? Find out the dealer COST (not dealer invoice
price) for the car you are considering, and then work your way UP (or
down) from there. This information is available from a number of
sites online.
Its much harder to work your way down in price AND, you may be losing
out on a better deal if a dealer has had a car on the lot awhile and is
really looking to get rid of it.
You have a better shot at getting a lower price by starting low - not
high, and you will immediately put the dealer on notice that you've
done the research and understand the going cost and FAIR retail price.

Dom

 

[lkreh]

Dude,

I seriously don't know what country you're from, but $8,000 is Blue
Book! Kelley Blue Book used retail is actually $7,985 for a 97 OBW w/
std equipment and 120,000 miles. Where do you think you're going find
a Subaru for $8K with a warranty???

I don't think your comments are steering this guy in any real world
direction.

LK

 

[Jim Stewart]

You won't find a Subaru (or any Japanese car) for $2000 at 100k.

Damn straight.

My '99 Outback has 106k miles on it, runs
perfectly, and has costed me scheduled
maintainance plus about $200.

I wouldn't even consider selling it for less
than $12,000.

 

[Florian Feuser /FFF/]

Dude,

I seriously don't know what country you're from, but $8,000 is Blue
Book! Kelley Blue Book used retail is actually $7,985 for a 97
OBW w/ std equipment and 120,000 miles. Where do you think you're
going find a Subaru for $8K with a warranty???

I don't think your comments are steering this guy in any real world
direction.

To your first question: I live in NYC.

Secondly, it's not that easy to put a price on the warranty since we do
not know the terms.

It is obviously an offering by the dealer and not the manufacturer which
means the dealer and his associated shop (not shops) are going to
fulfill the warranty on their terms [at their leisure?].

A year ago I sold my 96 GT wagon (135000 miles) at just under $5000 [new
belt, water pump and seals - all documented]. That three grand in your
pocket buys you a lot more than some [6month?] dealer warranty IMHO.

The 98 GT Wagon I am driving now cost me a bit less at 95k miles than
what the original poster [OP] is considering to pay for a 97 120k wagon.

If you know the dealer well and have trust in his service and the terms
of the warranty are convincing, then maybe.

I do not want to knock any dealer's business here, so I suggest the OP
contact me privately if interested.

florian /FFF/

 

[Bradley Walker]

Dom,

Thanks for that great info. I had planned to walk in low and work up
incrimentally if I have to. Do you have any URL's for where I can get the
dealer cost info at?

Bradley