So you think a Subaru is for YOU...

[Peter Johnston]

Reading the postings just confirms my decision NOT to buy another Suby. All
you people with way newer cars than mine are having nightmares. Why would I
want to relive my own bad dream with another iteration?



I have 231,000 km (143,000 miles) on my Loyale wagon. Some of the things
that I have had to do:



a.. 3 new clutches (getting close to a 4th)
b.. 4 sets of front drive shafts
c.. 3 new sets of front axle-hub bearings
d.. three front brake jobs
e.. 1 new oil pump
f.. 4 water pumps
g.. 1 alternator
h.. A/C doesn't work any more
i.. Replaced the heater fan resistor
j.. 5 sets of tires
k.. Replaced steel rims with cast Al rims - outrageous vibration (led to
bearing failures)
l.. Head gaskets
m.. Valve cover gaskets
n.. Intermittent electrical problems
o.. Failed rear bearing caused wheel to separate from shaft (started
growling and within 10 miles wheel departed)
p.. Clock stopped working (finally found a replacement at the wrecker)
q.. Catalytic converter failed (honeycomb came adrift internally and
blocked off the downstream orifice)
r.. Front alignment problems
s.. Rusting around windshield frame and other body panels.


Some good things



a.. Never a problem with the P/S
b.. Center hangar bearing still OK
c.. Mileage has improved - 28 city 34 highway
d.. The mechanical 4X4 still works
e.. Hydraulic valve lifers haven't pooched on me - like so many other
Loyale owners.

I am an aircraft maintenance engineer. I have maintained this car with oil
changes every 3,000 miles. New filters, spark plugs, timing belts as
required. None of the maintenance items above were fixed under warranty.
When new, this car was in the shop almost monthly for the first two years.
One thing after another went south. I saved thousands of dollars doing it
myself. I paid $12K for it new with 11.6 Km on the odometer.



I'm going back to Toyotas. Never had a lick of problems with my Corolla or
two LandCruisers. The 2005 RAV4 gets great mileage, has 5 star front AND
side impact ratings; has a viscous differential for torque splitting (they
copied Subaru on that one - see Subaru ain't ALL bad) and costs less than a
Impreza 2.5 TS wagon. Sayonara, baby.



Read The Machine that Changed the World. It's a 5-year study done by MIT on
the automobile industry. VERY interesting and definitive work on the
quality of vehicles.



For crashworthiness look at www.iihs.org.



For vehicle recalls look at
http://www.tc.gc.ca/RoadSafety/recalls/recintro_e.htm. Though the Subaru
Loyale only had one recall, in no way suggests that it is a high quality
vehicle. One wonders about the vehicles that have had numerous recalls.
Guess it has to do with the available sample population of the subject
vehicle.



Anyone claiming hundreds of thousands of miles or kilometers "trouble-free"
with their Subaru must be from an alternated dimension (or state of mind).
I simply don't believe them. And, if they are true, then the quality
problems at Subaru are deeper than we think. Reason: if over hunreds of
thousands of cars produced, only a few are blessed with all the parts in the
correct tolerance range to work well and last, then process variability is
rampant and management doesn't care. Just look at the news from Mitsubishi.



Lastly, the complex multi-valve high compression engines Subaru is putting
into their vehicles is a recipe for disaster. Sure they do wonders in the
FIA World Rally, but then again, the yearly racing budget is in the
tens-of-millions of US$$ and they have 35 mechanics to maintain the
platforms.



Go figure. Talk about marketting.

 

[Nige]

Another herbert

 

[Jim Stewart]

Reading the postings just confirms my decision NOT to buy another Suby. All
you people with way newer cars than mine are having nightmares. Why would I
want to relive my own bad dream with another iteration?

Reading this post just confirms that I hope
it is your last, "Dr. Rastus"

 

[Rick Courtright]

I have 231,000 km (143,000 miles) on my Loyale wagon. Some of the things
that I have had to do:

a.. 3 new clutches (getting close to a 4th)
d.. three front brake jobs
j.. 5 sets of tires

Hmmm...

Not doubting the fact you could have gotten a bad one, but a lot of a
vehicle's life expectancy is directly related to how it's driven, and
the three items I've left in from your list suggest to me this car just
MAY be driven a bit hard?

I've known a lot more Subie owners whose experience mirrors mine than
yours. I won't list all the repairs on my '90 Loyale, but with the
exception of tires, where I get about the same mileage you report (and
that's with a serious rear alignment problem--front's just fine), I've
replaced most of the stuff you've done, but only about half to a third
as frequently. I'm on my second clutch, alternator, water pump,
radiator, front axles, front wheel bearings, catlytic convertor (both),
one rear wheel bearing, and my A/C is dead.

Main difference is my car has 355,000 miles... and with the exception of
the A/C at 210k and the rear w/b at 260k, all the rest of this work
wasn't required until after 300k miles. And, since you recommend their
cars, while Toyota's quality is generally high, so is the maintenance on
some of their vehicles. I've got a V-6 Camry, with an automatic and 217k
miles, that's gotta go to the dealer for a lot of the work I could
easily do (and DID) on a 4 cyl Toy truck w/ a manual gearbox. The
Toyota's only major replacement parts have been an alternator, water
pump and a radiator that was damaged by road debris, otherwise just
maintenance. Even so, it's cost more just for scheduled trans flushes in
the Camry than a whole new clutch in the Subie! Adding up the receipts
in my Subaru envelope and comparing them to the receipts in the Toyota
envelope tells me the Toyota costs over twice per mile what the Subie
has cost. One way or another, if you drive a car, it's gonna cost you.

YMMV, of course.

Rick

 

[Ragnar]

Reading the postings just confirms my decision NOT to buy another Suby. All
you people with way newer cars than mine are having nightmares. Why would I
want to relive my own bad dream with another iteration?



I have 231,000 km (143,000 miles) on my Loyale wagon. Some of the things
that I have had to do:



a.. 3 new clutches (getting close to a 4th)
b.. 4 sets of front drive shafts
c.. 3 new sets of front axle-hub bearings
d.. three front brake jobs
e.. 1 new oil pump
f.. 4 water pumps
g.. 1 alternator
h.. A/C doesn't work any more
i.. Replaced the heater fan resistor
j.. 5 sets of tires
k.. Replaced steel rims with cast Al rims - outrageous vibration (led to
bearing failures)
l.. Head gaskets
m.. Valve cover gaskets
n.. Intermittent electrical problems
o.. Failed rear bearing caused wheel to separate from shaft (started
growling and within 10 miles wheel departed)
p.. Clock stopped working (finally found a replacement at the wrecker)
q.. Catalytic converter failed (honeycomb came adrift internally and
blocked off the downstream orifice)
r.. Front alignment problems
s.. Rusting around windshield frame and other body panels.

Gee, my Outback has had NOTHING wrong with it. Looks like your data point
and mine cancel out.

 

[John A.]

i.. Replaced the heater fan resistor

j.. 5 sets of tires
k.. Replaced steel rims with cast Al rims - outrageous vibration (led to
bearing failures)
l.. Head gaskets
m.. Valve cover gaskets
n.. Intermittent electrical problems
o.. Failed rear bearing caused wheel to separate from shaft (started
growling and within 10 miles wheel departed)
p.. Clock stopped working (finally found a replacement at the wrecker)
q.. Catalytic converter failed (honeycomb came adrift internally and
blocked off the downstream orifice)
r.. Front alignment problems
s.. Rusting around windshield frame and other body panels.

I find your post hard to believe since it runs counter to so many other's
experiences. I have had 3 Subarus; I still have 2. I had an '80; I still
have a '90 and my latest is a 2002 VDC H6 Outback. I have had no major
problems with any of the vehicles. I bought the '80 and '90 used. The 2002
is my first new Subaru. Without a doubt it is the best new car I have ever
purchased. I have only had minor problems with it (more quirks than
problems).

With all of the problems you claim to have had, I think you were foolish to
hold on to the car for so long.

In any case, to each their own. Bye.
John

 

[Rhesus Monkey]

I'm on my third Subaru and the repairs have been minimal and NOTHING
compared to what you are claiming.

 

[busterb]

Toyota does make a fine vehicle but the RAV is a bit girly and when is
a spare supposed to serve as the rear bumper. THAT is a poor design

 

[Ricardo Montalban]

I have a 98 legacy wagon with 260 000 km....

so far, i've

replaced the o2 sensor (major pain)
done one, maybe 2 brake jobs
regular ish service (change oil every 6 months...)
replaced one coil

oh, the humanity! i should go buy a chrysler, that would keep me from
actually driving it, since it would be in the shop all the time.

 

[Spinifex]

LOL....... lets see if i can inflame someone with this comment....

Your reliability problems are caused because US market Subaru's are
manufactured in US.... HA HA HA

Close friends of mine operate a subaru specialist workshop and have a
large customer base from all over Queensland (2nd largest state in
Australia)..... and they tell me that 98% of their customers are there
for general servicing and modifications for off-road use - NOT for
vehicle defects.

The reason......???? Our cars are manufactured in Japan.

Go figure...... HA HA HA HA

Spinifex

 

[2 Stroke]

I'd love to see the evaluation your wrote about your ex-wife. Please,
do share.

 

[hippo]

No. I think I know a Subaru is for me. That's why I just bought another
one! 91 Liberty wagon (your Legacy) 2 new clutches in 325000Km with a lot
of towing & a fair bit of mid to high speed backroads driving. Air
regassed at 305000Km. Two new front & one rear air suspension systems over
its life was the only real pain. Otherwise routine maintenance, occasional
brake pads and reasonably frequent tyres. So now I have a 99 Outback
Limited AT. Didn't want an auto but the deal was too good to go past. BTW,
I hope if a new Rav4 is rear ended it doesn't end up with B & C pillar
damage and both back doors jammed like the one I saw in Sydney about a
year after the first model was released. Sure it had been rear ended but
only at about 20Km/h.

 

[Damon McMahon]

Toyota does make a fine vehicle but the RAV is a bit girly and when is
a spare supposed to serve as the rear bumper. THAT is a poor design

I concur with that entirely. There is NO WAY I would ever put any
passengers (particularly children) in the back seat of a RAV4. I see so
many people driving with their kids in the back of those things, and I
can't help feeling that if they can afford a new RAV4 then that is just
negligent parenting.

 

[Clive]

Reading the postings just confirms my decision NOT to buy another Suby. All
you people with way newer cars than mine are having nightmares. Why would I
want to relive my own bad dream with another iteration?

SNIP dubious tale of woe.<

According to Subaru UK 82% of first-time
Subaru buyers are so pissed off with the
overall quality/reliability/value-for-money
they buy another one.
I'm on my 3rd Impreza turbo...WRX.
In 10 years...1 warranty issue...a loose
heat shield over the cat.
Hardly the most unreliable marque I've ever owned.
Consistently highly rated in the JD Powers polls
and first quite recently.
Mind you we only get the Japanese-built models
here in the UK.
If you want to hear tales of woe check out the
bitching about Mercedes, an icon of Teutonic
automotive engineering.
www.mercedesproblems.com
www.troublebenz.com

--
Clive Norris
Selectron (UK) Ltd
Musical Equipment Distribution
www.espguitars.co.uk
www.espshop.co.uk
www.emgpickups.co.uk
www.emginc.com
www.whirlwindusa.com
www.deanmarkley.com
www.mightymite.com
www.tube-shop.com

 

[Hallraker]

Reading the postings just confirms my decision NOT to buy another Suby. All
you people with way newer cars than mine are having nightmares. Why would I
want to relive my own bad dream with another iteration?

troll.

 

[Dr. Rastis Fafoofnik]

would

troll.

Don't ya just LOVE it! if you post something in praise of these little
shitboxes..your cool...if you post something you DON'T like about shitty
Subaru's...your a "Troll,Idiot or jerk" hahahaha
Sorry guys, I think these cars are pure junk! Have personally known former
Subaru owners, seen them burning on the freeway and read plenty of
complaints about them.
I have owned 6 various Hondas,Toyotas, Fords, Chevy and Chryslers. I will
GLADLY pay more for them than a GOD DAMN cheap Subaru. I would'nt drive a
KIA, Hyundai or Daewoo either.
There are good quality cars out there, just Subaru is NOT one of them. That
combined with a company that has a "**** YOU" attitude, won't stand behind
it's products **Willingly**.
A car is just an appliance to me, it's job is to get me from point A to
point B and do it without problems. I DON'T have a loveaffair with any
vehicle.
If I wanted a high horsepower SMALL car there are many out there that are a
hell of a lot more dependable than Subaru! Even the Nissan Altima's have
240+ horsepower! I'm not rushing out to buy one, but it's "track record" is
one hell of a lot better than ANY Subaru.
Say what you want.....in *MY* opinion Subarus are junk! have always been a
cheap box of shit, designed to be a throwaway.Subaru gives the Japanese Auto
industry a big black eye.At least the Korean manfactures have somewhat an
excuse for the crap they produce, What's Subaru's excuse?

 

[Clive]

Idiot troll
*PLONK*

Don't ya just LOVE it! if you post something in praise of these little
shitboxes..your cool...if you post something you DON'T like about shitty
Subaru's...your a "Troll,Idiot or jerk" hahahaha
Sorry guys, I think these cars are pure junk! Have personally known former
Subaru owners, seen them burning on the freeway and read plenty of
complaints about them.
I have owned 6 various Hondas,Toyotas, Fords, Chevy and Chryslers. I will
GLADLY pay more for them than a GOD DAMN cheap Subaru. I would'nt drive a
KIA, Hyundai or Daewoo either.
There are good quality cars out there, just Subaru is NOT one of them. That
combined with a company that has a "**** YOU" attitude, won't stand behind
it's products **Willingly**.
A car is just an appliance to me, it's job is to get me from point A to
point B and do it without problems. I DON'T have a loveaffair with any
vehicle.
If I wanted a high horsepower SMALL car there are many out there that are a
hell of a lot more dependable than Subaru! Even the Nissan Altima's have
240+ horsepower! I'm not rushing out to buy one, but it's "track record" is
one hell of a lot better than ANY Subaru.
Say what you want.....in *MY* opinion Subarus are junk! have always been a
cheap box of shit, designed to be a throwaway.Subaru gives the Japanese Auto
industry a big black eye.At least the Korean manfactures have somewhat an
excuse for the crap they produce, What's Subaru's excuse?

 

[Patrick Callaghan]

I hope I do not sound rude but if you hate Subaru's, Why are you in this
newsgroup? Why not spend your time in a newsgroup that you actually like?

Pat

"> Don't ya just LOVE it! if you post something in praise of these little

 

[FNO]

Don't ya just LOVE it! if you post something in praise of these little
shitboxes..your cool...if you post something you DON'T like about shitty
Subaru's...your a "Troll,Idiot or jerk" hahahaha
Sorry guys, I think these cars are pure junk! Have personally known former
Subaru owners, seen them burning on the freeway and read plenty of
complaints about them.
I have owned 6 various Hondas,Toyotas, Fords, Chevy and Chryslers. I will
GLADLY pay more for them than a GOD DAMN cheap Subaru. I would'nt drive a
KIA, Hyundai or Daewoo either.
There are good quality cars out there, just Subaru is NOT one of them. That
combined with a company that has a "**** YOU" attitude, won't stand behind
it's products **Willingly**.
A car is just an appliance to me, it's job is to get me from point A to
point B and do it without problems. I DON'T have a loveaffair with any
vehicle.
If I wanted a high horsepower SMALL car there are many out there that are a
hell of a lot more dependable than Subaru! Even the Nissan Altima's have
240+ horsepower! I'm not rushing out to buy one, but it's "track record" is
one hell of a lot better than ANY Subaru.
Say what you want.....in *MY* opinion Subarus are junk! have always been a
cheap box of shit, designed to be a throwaway.Subaru gives the Japanese Auto
industry a big black eye.At least the Korean manfactures have somewhat an
excuse for the crap they produce, What's Subaru's excuse?

Interestly enough, you don't have a Subaru in the list of cars you owned;
which means all you actually know about them is annecdotal and second-hand.
What's the matter? Did some little WRX smoke your Ford truck and you are
pissed about it?

You're right about one thing though. Its a car. And like all cars, it is
not perfect. However, for the money, it is reliable, fun to drive, kind of
quirky (just like the characters of most people who own more than one) and
they add practicality to the fun-factor with AWD when you live in a climate
where you need that for several months per year.

 

[FNO]

Reading the postings just confirms my decision NOT to buy another Suby. All
you people with way newer cars than mine are having nightmares. Why would I
want to relive my own bad dream with another iteration?



I have 231,000 km (143,000 miles) on my Loyale wagon. Some of the things
that I have had to do:



a.. 3 new clutches (getting close to a 4th)
b.. 4 sets of front drive shafts
c.. 3 new sets of front axle-hub bearings
d.. three front brake jobs
e.. 1 new oil pump
f.. 4 water pumps
g.. 1 alternator
h.. A/C doesn't work any more
i.. Replaced the heater fan resistor
j.. 5 sets of tires
k.. Replaced steel rims with cast Al rims - outrageous vibration (led to
bearing failures)
l.. Head gaskets
m.. Valve cover gaskets
n.. Intermittent electrical problems
o.. Failed rear bearing caused wheel to separate from shaft (started
growling and within 10 miles wheel departed)
p.. Clock stopped working (finally found a replacement at the wrecker)
q.. Catalytic converter failed (honeycomb came adrift internally and
blocked off the downstream orifice)
r.. Front alignment problems
s.. Rusting around windshield frame and other body panels.

<snip>
Interesting. Some of the parts just seem to be things that would fail on
just about any car. However, the clutches, shafts, wheel bearings, and
brake jobs seem to be indicative of someone who needs a few lessons in
driving. I would bet it woudn't have mattered what car you had, the
failures would likely have been the same.

The Loyale wasn't exactly the best car Subaru ever produced, but my
neighbour has one. He has 438,000KM on it and he claims he has only done
routine maintainance on it. It just started burning oil. He loses about 1
litre every 1000 km; not great, but still within tolerance if you drove a GM
V6. We live in a area with a lot of salt and he didn't undercoat it, so the
body is shot. However, he does drive it carefully and he is on the ORIGINAL
clutch, had to replace brakes about every 80,000 for the front, and 150,000
for the rear. He is going on 8 sets of tires; but then again, good tires
only have a rating of about 80,000 KM before they will fail safety
inspection.

I would say you either just had shitty luck, or you are not a very good
driver. Most people I know have great luck with their Subarus which
convinced me to by my first one last year. Up until that time, I had always
driven GM cars because the parts were cheap (as are the cars), and the goofy
styling of Subarus didn't appeal to me. However, after buying a WRX-STi and
driving it through a Canadian winter (it's sure-footedness sold me on it),
added to the fun-factor that car provides, with excellent reliability (it
already has 50,000KM on it with no problems at all - couldn't say that about
any GM I ever owned), I am pretty sure I'll buy another one.