Saw a crazy Subie owner the other day - Towbar mounted to

[Bobby]

I live in Anchorage, AK and recently had relatives from the lower 48 come up
for a visit. We went down to Seward and had a blast looking at all the
sights. When parking in one of the local parking lots, I saw what appeared
to be a 2000+ Model OBW with a towbar mounted permanently to the front
bumper of the car. I see these hitches all the time for people with RV's
and I waited around for a while to see if I could locate the owner....

Long story short, from everything I read, doesn't this sound like a horrible
idea?!? I was wondering if anyone had any....any at all (as I've never
heard of such) info regarding it being OK to tow an AWD vehicle like that.
I suspect the owners had to have mounted that themselves as I can't see a
shop doing it for them.

--

 

[BBB]

Maybe he pushes his trailer?

 

[Ignignokt]

I live in Anchorage, AK and recently had relatives from the lower 48
come up for a visit. We went down to Seward and had a blast looking
at all the sights. When parking in one of the local parking lots, I
saw what appeared to be a 2000+ Model OBW with a towbar mounted
permanently to the front bumper of the car. I see these hitches all
the time for people with RV's and I waited around for a while to see
if I could locate the owner....

Long story short, from everything I read, doesn't this sound like a
horrible idea?!? I was wondering if anyone had any....any at all (as
I've never heard of such) info regarding it being OK to tow an AWD
vehicle like that. I suspect the owners had to have mounted that
themselves as I can't see a shop doing it for them.

It's not the AWD that's the problem, it's the transmission. My 5-speed
Forester can be flat-towed all day long without any problems at all. As
long as all four wheels are turning the same speed, there's no problem.
(Note that with a tow dolly, all four wheels *do not* turn at the same
speed.) But if I had an automatic -- well, that would be a different
situation. Automatic transmissions require the engine to be running for
operation of the transmission pump that lubricates the tranny's moving
parts. Turning the transmission's internal parts for long periods without
the engine running (as when flat-towing such a car) is like running an
engine without an oil pump. That is to say, it's a Very Bad Thing (tm).
Manual trannies don't require a pump for lubrication, and are therefore okay
to flat-tow. I *have* heard stories of people flat-towing automatics by
idling the engine the whole trip. Personally, I would rather rent a
flat-bed trailer. By relying on the idling engine for transmission
lubrication, you risk overheading the engine due to being in the towing
vehicle's draft. Not to mention that your transmission will be fragged if
the engine should stall for whatever reason.

- Greg Reed

 

[Ragnar]

I live in Anchorage, AK and recently had relatives from the lower 48 come up
for a visit. We went down to Seward and had a blast looking at all the
sights. When parking in one of the local parking lots, I saw what appeared
to be a 2000+ Model OBW with a towbar mounted permanently to the front
bumper of the car. I see these hitches all the time for people with RV's
and I waited around for a while to see if I could locate the owner....

Long story short, from everything I read, doesn't this sound like a horrible
idea?!? I was wondering if anyone had any....any at all (as I've never
heard of such) info regarding it being OK to tow an AWD vehicle like that.
I suspect the owners had to have mounted that themselves as I can't see a
shop doing it for them.

Not a problem if the OBW was a manual transmission model.

 

[Jim Lofgren]

I posted this once before, but the subject begs further posting. First let
me state that I agree with everything that is being posted here about not
towing Subaru AWDs with automatics. I would never tow one with all the
wheels on the ground. That said,.....

I bought a '97 OBS in February with 121K miles on it. It had been owned by
a older couple and towed all over the US, with a mounted tow bar and a fuse
in the FWD fuse socket. The car drove great and they stated that the miles
on the car didn't reflect the actual engine miles because of the towing. I
got a good price on the car and emediately drove it home and put it on
jackstands. I dropped the transmission pan and cleaned up built up crud in
the pan....no metal to speak of. Then flushed the trans thoroughly. Filled
it with Destron III and put in Lubeguard.
I drained the front and rear differentials and found nothing abnormal in the
drained grease. Then put in Synthetic grease.

I now have 124K miles on it and the trans is quiet and shifts great. No
noise from any of the running gear. You figure it out.... I can't. I
called the dealer here in Bellevue, Washington and asked about the
permissability of towing one of these this way and they said no
problem....just put in the FWD fuse. I about broke my jaw when it hit the
ground.

OK....My take......don't risk damage to your car by doing this! I took a
chance by buying the car and so far I've done well.....you may not be so
lucky.

Regards, Jim Lofgren...Redmond, WA

 

[Patrick Fisher]

I bought a '97 OBS in February with 121K miles on it. It had been owned by
a older couple and towed all over the US, with a mounted tow bar and a fuse
in the FWD fuse socket.

OK....My take......don't risk damage to your car by doing this! I took a
chance by buying the car and so far I've done well.....you may not be so
lucky.

Weird. What's strange is that people think a fuse is going to do anything
if the car is off and being towed. :-/

I'm curious what good the fuse would do anyway if you were towing with all
four wheels on the ground. And if they were towing with the front wheels up,
I would at least expect the center diff to be fubared, if not the trans
itself (maybe it's part of the 4EAT?)

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Sorry I don't recall where, but I did read once that ,in an AT, you can
use the FWD fuse AND turn the ignition on (or ACC? not sure) and tow
with all 4 on the ground. Seems like it would be rough on the battery
and the 'duty solenoid C'. Of course, just because I read it doesn't
mean its true.

Carl
1 Lucky Texan

 

[Ralph E Lindberg]

....

see http://www.towingworld.com/DinghyGuide/subaru2.html

--

 

[Bobby]

Trust me, I'm not. As said before, I'd be more then happy to foot the bill
for a flat bed... What bothered me was the fact that if others see it, they
are likely to try it (informed or not)

Mine is the first new car I've ever owned and I won't take any chances with
it.

--

| I posted this once before, but the subject begs further posting. First
let
| me state that I agree with everything that is being posted here about not
| towing Subaru AWDs with automatics. I would never tow one with all the
| wheels on the ground. That said,.....
|
| I bought a '97 OBS in February with 121K miles on it. It had been owned
by
| a older couple and towed all over the US, with a mounted tow bar and a
fuse
| in the FWD fuse socket. The car drove great and they stated that the
miles
| on the car didn't reflect the actual engine miles because of the towing.
I
| got a good price on the car and emediately drove it home and put it on
| jackstands. I dropped the transmission pan and cleaned up built up crud
in
| the pan....no metal to speak of. Then flushed the trans thoroughly.
Filled
| it with Destron III and put in Lubeguard.
| I drained the front and rear differentials and found nothing abnormal in
the
| drained grease. Then put in Synthetic grease.
|
| I now have 124K miles on it and the trans is quiet and shifts great. No
| noise from any of the running gear. You figure it out.... I can't. I
| called the dealer here in Bellevue, Washington and asked about the
| permissability of towing one of these this way and they said no
| problem....just put in the FWD fuse. I about broke my jaw when it hit the
| ground.
|
| OK....My take......don't risk damage to your car by doing this! I took a
| chance by buying the car and so far I've done well.....you may not be so
| lucky.
|
| Regards, Jim Lofgren...Redmond, WA
|
|
|
| | > I live in Anchorage, AK and recently had relatives from the lower 48
come
| up
| > for a visit. We went down to Seward and had a blast looking at all the
| > sights. When parking in one of the local parking lots, I saw what
| appeared
| > to be a 2000+ Model OBW with a towbar mounted permanently to the front
| > bumper of the car. I see these hitches all the time for people with
RV's
| > and I waited around for a while to see if I could locate the owner....
| >
| > Long story short, from everything I read, doesn't this sound like a
| horrible
| > idea?!? I was wondering if anyone had any....any at all (as I've never
| > heard of such) info regarding it being OK to tow an AWD vehicle like
that.
| > I suspect the owners had to have mounted that themselves as I can't see
a
| > shop doing it for them.
| >
| > --
| >
| >
| >
|
|

 

[Bobby]

|
| see http://www.towingworld.com/DinghyGuide/subaru2.html
|
| --


Nasty little disclaimer at the bottom though

 

[Bobby]

|
|
| Bobby wrote:
| > I live in Anchorage, AK and recently had relatives from the lower 48
| > come up for a visit. We went down to Seward and had a blast looking
| > at all the sights. When parking in one of the local parking lots, I
| > saw what appeared to be a 2000+ Model OBW with a towbar mounted
| > permanently to the front bumper of the car. I see these hitches all
| > the time for people with RV's and I waited around for a while to see
| > if I could locate the owner....
| >
| > Long story short, from everything I read, doesn't this sound like a
| > horrible idea?!? I was wondering if anyone had any....any at all (as
| > I've never heard of such) info regarding it being OK to tow an AWD
| > vehicle like that. I suspect the owners had to have mounted that
| > themselves as I can't see a shop doing it for them.
|
| It's not the AWD that's the problem, it's the transmission. My 5-speed
| Forester can be flat-towed all day long without any problems at all. As
| long as all four wheels are turning the same speed, there's no problem.
| (Note that with a tow dolly, all four wheels *do not* turn at the same
| speed.) But if I had an automatic -- well, that would be a different
| situation. Automatic transmissions require the engine to be running for
| operation of the transmission pump that lubricates the tranny's moving
| parts. Turning the transmission's internal parts for long periods without
| the engine running (as when flat-towing such a car) is like running an
| engine without an oil pump. That is to say, it's a Very Bad Thing (tm).
| Manual trannies don't require a pump for lubrication, and are therefore
okay
| to flat-tow. I *have* heard stories of people flat-towing automatics by
| idling the engine the whole trip. Personally, I would rather rent a
| flat-bed trailer. By relying on the idling engine for transmission
| lubrication, you risk overheading the engine due to being in the towing
| vehicle's draft. Not to mention that your transmission will be fragged if
| the engine should stall for whatever reason.
|
| - Greg Reed
|
| --
| 2001 Chevy Astro AWD (wife's)
| 2004 Subaru Forester Turbo 5-Speed
|

I knew it would come up... Damn, I shoulda checked to see if it was an AT
or MT. I was a little busy defending my earlier comments to my in-laws
about towing a Subie though.

 

[RalphG]

I live in Anchorage, AK and recently had relatives from the lower 48 come up
for a visit. We went down to Seward and had a blast looking at all the
sights. When parking in one of the local parking lots, I saw what appeared
to be a 2000+ Model OBW with a towbar mounted permanently to the front
bumper of the car. I see these hitches all the time for people with RV's
and I waited around for a while to see if I could locate the owner....

Long story short, from everything I read, doesn't this sound like a horrible
idea?!? I was wondering if anyone had any....any at all (as I've never
heard of such) info regarding it being OK to tow an AWD vehicle like that.
I suspect the owners had to have mounted that themselves as I can't see a
shop doing it for them.

I guess that you guys all assume that the subie was going to be towed by
another vehicle. Whilst it is not common it is not unusual for some 4 wheel
drives to be fitted with a front towball to permit manouvering large towed
trailers into tight spaces without having to look backwards and to turn the
steering opposite to the direction that you want to go.

 

[Henry Paul]

I think he meant towbar, not towball. I had one put on my old jeep back in
the day.

 

[Ralph E Lindberg]

.... towbar mounted permanently to the front
....
I guess that you guys all assume that the subie was going to be towed by
another vehicle. Whilst it is not common it is not unusual for some 4 wheel
drives to be fitted with a front towball to permit manouvering large towed
trailers into tight spaces without having to look backwards and to turn the
steering opposite to the direction that you want to go.

Please note the word TOWBAR in the original post

A Towbar is what goes on the front of a car being towed (or TOAD), it
is not a hitch with a ball

--

 

[Chris Phillipo]

Maybe he pushes his trailer?

If it was for towing then they probably have a drive shaft disconnect
installed also. It also may have been for a bike rack, team cars often
have bikes on the front, back and roof. I have also seen trucks with
hitches on the front for maneuvering boat trailers in and out of the
water but I doubt you could tow anything big enough with a OBW that you
would have to be facing it to back it into the water.

 

[Guest]

Please note the word TOWBAR in the original post

A Towbar is what goes on the front of a car being towed (or TOAD), it
is not a hitch with a ball

You might say it's a hitch with a socket. ;-)
Username munged by FixNews

 

[K R Larkin]

Bobbie, et al:

Straight from the Subie website to your eyes -

I'm sure if you'd have looked in the car, you'd have seen a stick shift and
a clutch pedal, making the owner one smart sonofagun, and not so crazy at
all.


From www.subaru.com:



Towing Your Subaru

Subaru of America, Inc. recently changed its policy regarding towing of
Subaru vehicles. The guidelines below apply to 1990 or later Legacy (and
Outback) models, 1993 or later Impreza (and Outback) models and 1992 or
later SVX models and all Forester models. (If your Subaru doesn't fit into
any of these categories, please refer to your Owner's Manual.)

Manual Transmission Models
All-Wheel Drive vehicles can be towed with all four wheels on the ground in
neutral or with all four wheels off the ground on a trailer with the
transmission in gear. Never attempt towing with only two wheels on the
ground or two wheels on a dolly. Front-Wheel Drive vehicles can be towed
with all four wheels on the ground in neutral or with the two front wheels
off the ground.

Automatic Transmission Models
All-Wheel Drive vehicles cannot be towed with any wheels on the ground. The
vehicle can only be towed on a trailer with all four wheels off the ground
and the transmission in park. Front-Wheel Drive vehicles can be towed with
front wheels off the ground or all four wheels off the ground and
transmission in park.