Rough shifting

[Bradley Walker]

Hello all,

I just noticed this yesterday and although it doesn't seem like a big issue,
I want to run it past everyone here. When shifting from 2nd to 3rd gears
I've started to notice a very slight bit of 'roughness' just as I shift into
3rd. The car moves fine, the gears take hold just fine and there is no
jerkiness of the car or anything. It's that just through holding the
shifter I can feel the very slight bit of roughness in my hand through the
shifter as the shifter slides into 3rd. However this problem does not
exsist when going from 4th to 3rd or in any other gear.

Ideas, thoughts, suggestions?

Bradley

 

[Sheldon]

Hello all,

I just noticed this yesterday and although it doesn't seem like a big
issue, I want to run it past everyone here. When shifting from 2nd to 3rd
gears I've started to notice a very slight bit of 'roughness' just as I
shift into 3rd. The car moves fine, the gears take hold just fine and
there is no jerkiness of the car or anything. It's that just through
holding the shifter I can feel the very slight bit of roughness in my hand
through the shifter as the shifter slides into 3rd. However this problem
does not exsist when going from 4th to 3rd or in any other gear.

Ideas, thoughts, suggestions?

Bradley

It sounds as though you may have a syncro that's starting to go. You don't
give many details about the car, but I had a '90 Loyale that had a bit of
grinding when going into 3rd and 4th. My mechanic said not to worry about
it, and that it was normal for a car of this type and age. Someone in this
group told me their Loyale did that for 100,000 miles with no problems, and
I never had a problem with mine.

You can start by changing and inspecting the tranny fluid for metal bits and
wear. Just changing the fluid might solve the problem. If the clutch is a
cable type, an adjustment might also resolve the problem.

 

[KLS]

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 20:14:22 -0600, "Sheldon"

It sounds as though you may have a syncro that's starting to go.

I STR that his car has a manual transmission, in which case, he might
have a clutch problem. He did buy the car used, and any time you do
that with a manual transmission, you can't be sure the previous people
didn't abuse the clutch. That's kind of what happened with our '99
Legacy OBW: we had to change out the clutch at about 76k miles.

 

[Bradley Walker]

Actually I checked the service records before purchasing and the clutch had
been entirely replaced at around 60,000 miles. I bought it with 78,000 on
it. I'm thinking tranmission fluid flush will go along way to help. The
vehicle just turned 90,000 miles two days ago and I'm driving in like 7
miles a day (God bless home office) and hopefully within 1-2 weekends will
have my 90k service done on it.

 

[Dmitriy]

I actually have the same thing shifting into 3rd. It almost feels like
a small *crunch* against your hand, right? You can't head it, just feel
it in the shifter. My car is around your mileage too... so my guess
would be the syncros. I just changed my fluid to Uncle Scotty's
cocktail (2qts of Castrol HypoC 80w90 + 1qt of Redline Lightweight
Shockproof + 1qt of Pennzoil Syncromesh) (search nasioc.com for more
details) and it seemed to help a bit.

 

[Bradley Walker]

You are exactly right in that it can't be heard, only felt through the
shifter and only when upshifting into 3rd. I have however been able to
avoid it all the time if I Press the clutch in far as it can go, hold it an
extra quarter of a second before shifting then shift. That seems to
aleviate most of it.

How much does it cost to fix/replace the synchros?

 

[Bradley Walker]

Btw - What exactly is a synchro and what does it do??

 

[Victor Roberts]

You are exactly right in that it can't be heard, only felt through the
shifter and only when upshifting into 3rd. I have however been able to
avoid it all the time if I Press the clutch in far as it can go, hold it an
extra quarter of a second before shifting then shift. That seems to
aleviate most of it.

I have the same issue with my new 2006 Forester. I only
have 1`500 miles on the car so I was going to see if it
worked itself out. I haven't tested waiting a fraction of a
second to see if that helps.

 

[Victor Roberts]

Btw - What exactly is a synchro and what does it do??

The synchromesh gears align the transmission gears when you
shift. That is, when you mesh a new par of gears. Before
synchromesh was developed, drivers had to use the throttle
to gently bring the gears driven by the engine to the same
rotational speed as the gears attached to the wheels before
the two sets of gears were engaged. A rather difficult
task.

 

[Bradley Walker]

Vic,

I played around with shifting today on a 1.5lane wide country backroad with
ups and downs and a bit of a spirited sunday afternoon driving. I tried
shifting up into and down into 3rd at various speeds, turns, and motions. I
discovered that shifting down into 3rd never once presented a problem as was
shifting into 4th, 5th, 2nd or 1st. It was when I would upshift into 3rd
around 3200-3500rpm when I could "feel" a bit of grinding through the
gearshift. As the previous poster mentioned, you can't hear it, but can
feel it.

What I discovered is that if I shifted into 3rd with the rpm being around
2700-3100 that the grinding was barely present. Also when at a higher rpm
going uphill and shifting, if I pressed the clutch in all the way and waited
a fraction of a second longer, before placing the stick into 3rd gear, it
seemed to cause that grinding to go away and become unnoticed. I'm waiting
to see if a transmission fluid flush very soon will solve that or cause it
to subside for several thousand more miles.

How much does it cost to replace a synchro setup? Does it required the
transmission to be pulled?

 

[Victor Roberts]

Vic,

I played around with shifting today on a 1.5lane wide country backroad with
ups and downs and a bit of a spirited sunday afternoon driving. I tried
shifting up into and down into 3rd at various speeds, turns, and motions. I
discovered that shifting down into 3rd never once presented a problem as was
shifting into 4th, 5th, 2nd or 1st. It was when I would upshift into 3rd
around 3200-3500rpm when I could "feel" a bit of grinding through the
gearshift. As the previous poster mentioned, you can't hear it, but can
feel it.

What I discovered is that if I shifted into 3rd with the rpm being around
2700-3100 that the grinding was barely present. Also when at a higher rpm
going uphill and shifting, if I pressed the clutch in all the way and waited
a fraction of a second longer, before placing the stick into 3rd gear, it
seemed to cause that grinding to go away and become unnoticed. I'm waiting
to see if a transmission fluid flush very soon will solve that or cause it
to subside for several thousand more miles.

How much does it cost to replace a synchro setup? Does it required the
transmission to be pulled?

Perhaps I should clarify, My Forester gears do not
"grind." When shifting from 2nd to 3rd, and only when
shifting from 2nd to 3rd, I can sometimes feel the gears hit
or touch right before they engage. This happens just once
per upshift. I would not call this grinding.

I don't know what it costs to replace the synchro setup, but
perhaps 5 years ago I had some "ticking" gears replaced in
the manual transmission of my 95 Legacy and the bill was
over $2000.

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Vic,

I played around with shifting today on a 1.5lane wide country backroad with
ups and downs and a bit of a spirited sunday afternoon driving. I tried
shifting up into and down into 3rd at various speeds, turns, and motions. I
discovered that shifting down into 3rd never once presented a problem as was
shifting into 4th, 5th, 2nd or 1st. It was when I would upshift into 3rd
around 3200-3500rpm when I could "feel" a bit of grinding through the
gearshift. As the previous poster mentioned, you can't hear it, but can
feel it.

What I discovered is that if I shifted into 3rd with the rpm being around
2700-3100 that the grinding was barely present. Also when at a higher rpm
going uphill and shifting, if I pressed the clutch in all the way and waited
a fraction of a second longer, before placing the stick into 3rd gear, it
seemed to cause that grinding to go away and become unnoticed. I'm waiting
to see if a transmission fluid flush very soon will solve that or cause it
to subside for several thousand more miles.

How much does it cost to replace a synchro setup? Does it required the
transmission to be pulled?

I have the same issue with my new 2006 Forester. I only
have 1`500 miles on the car so I was going to see if it
worked itself out. I haven't tested waiting a fraction of a
second to see if that helps.

I would try a Redline gear oil. Forget the exact name/number, but some
soob guys claim it helps the synchros spin up faster. Supposedly you
WANT a little friction in the MT and many folks have had trouble
switching to gear oil with incorrect 'friction modifiers'. perhaps the
oil has just gotten 'tired'.


Carl

 

[Bradley Walker]

I agree with your definition better. I was having a problem accurately
describing it, but you described my situation to a T.

 

[Bradley Walker]

Is this the same as the transmission fluid when I get my 90k transmission
fluid flush? Or does this oil pertain to something else with the
transmission?

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Is this the same as the transmission fluid when I get my 90k transmission
fluid flush? Or does this oil pertain to something else with the
transmission?

same, if it was done at the dealer, you got OEM oil. Some folks say
redline is better. you might ask around at www.ultimatesubaru.net and
www.nasioc.com

Carl

 

[k. ote]

Hello all,

I just noticed this yesterday and although it doesn't seem like a big
issue,
I want to run it past everyone here. When shifting from 2nd to 3rd gears
I've started to notice a very slight bit of 'roughness' just as I shift
into
3rd. The car moves fine, the gears take hold just fine and there is no
jerkiness of the car or anything. It's that just through holding the
shifter I can feel the very slight bit of roughness in my hand through the
shifter as the shifter slides into 3rd. However this problem does not
exsist when going from 4th to 3rd or in any other gear.

Ideas, thoughts, suggestions?

Bradley

Try mashing your foot down faster on the clutch. On my STi, it's extremely
sensitive to the speed at which I depress the clutch, to the point where if
I do it too slow I'll have to double-clutch to shift it properly back into
*any* gear, let alone the one I was trying to get it into.

Those lazy mornings when I haven't had enough sleep the night before are
particularly troublesome.. I just want to take it easy on the drive to
work, dammit, and meanwhile the car is cold and needs encouragement to
shift from 1st to 2nd, so I've gotta be violent with my foot..

A mechanic friend said that in almost all cars he's driven and raced, they
all had that same weird fraction-of-a-second judder in the stick when
shifting into 3rd. My STi has it as well, even with the clutch fully
depressed, so if there is something wrong, there's a tonne of people out
there who don't know it.

=]