Q vs H rated Winter Tires - Forester

[mestoesta]

I'm very close to buying some winter tires for my '04 Forester. I went
into one tire dealer and he was showing me that the Yokohama Geolanders
are H rated and that I should also buy an H rated winter tire. Is this
necessary? or can I just purchase the Q rated tires that most places
offer (for cheaper I think)?

I see that Q rated tires are rated to 160km/h (99mph) - I don't think
I'll being going that fast in the winter. Will I be OK buying Q rated
tires?

any thoughts would help a alot.
thanks,
Mike

 

[kramer]

I'm very close to buying some winter tires for my '04 Forester. I went
into one tire dealer and he was showing me that the Yokohama Geolanders
are H rated and that I should also buy an H rated winter tire. Is this
necessary? or can I just purchase the Q rated tires that most places
offer (for cheaper I think)?

I see that Q rated tires are rated to 160km/h (99mph) - I don't think
I'll being going that fast in the winter. Will I be OK buying Q rated
tires?

any thoughts would help a alot.
thanks,
Mike

Do you go that fast in the Summer?? If so, it probally doesn't matter which
tire you get because you will not be long for this world...

All kidding aside, I have placed lower speed rated (T) tires on a car that
came stock with (H) rated and I noticed that the car didn't handle as well
through the corners. I don't know if this is because of a 'less-stiff'
sidewall, or just the particular tires I was comparing, but I would imagine
that if you went down a speed rating in a winter tire, the 'perhaps' lack of
handling would be offset by the superior traction. Of course, where you
live, how much snow, how long you will have them on the car all would help
the decision making process. Maybe not much help, but my $.02. Good Luck

 

[Edward Hayes]

The tire rating has more to do with safety than just with the speed
rating as said. Most states are particular enough about this (and
insurance companies) that it is against the law to put a lower rated
tire than what came from the manufacture. Most tire dealers will not
sell or put on a lower rated tire on your car for liability reasons.

 

[mestoesta]

The tire rating has more to do with safety than just with the speed
rating as said. Most states are particular enough about this (and
insurance companies) that it is against the law to put a lower rated
tire than what came from the manufacture. Most tire dealers will not
sell or put on a lower rated tire on your car for liability reasons.

So what I'm hearing is that I should definitely get an H rated winter
tire if that's what the Forester came with. Funny how only one of the
four tire dealers I went to even asked what the tire rating was.
Just to add some info, I live in Guelph, Ontario, Canada. We can get
some pretty harsh winters here, especially when driving on the country
roads in this area.

 

[y_p_w]

So what I'm hearing is that I should definitely get an H rated winter
tire if that's what the Forester came with. Funny how only one of the
four tire dealers I went to even asked what the tire rating was.
Just to add some info, I live in Guelph, Ontario, Canada. We can get
some pretty harsh winters here, especially when driving on the country
roads in this area.

First of all, the speed rating only applies to dry regular
pavement. Anyone driving 99 MPH in deep snow is an idiot.

There are very few V-rated winter tires (Nokian WR is one).

Most tire installers will make an exception for winter tires
with a lower speed rating. I recall being at a tire store
where someone asked about installer slower speed rated tires
than factory to save money. The installer said he'd install
them only if the buyer signed a waiver saying that he
understood that this fact. I'd hope that for winter tires,
the installer would present all the safety info, and make
the buyer sign a statement that he understands there are
limits to winter tires.

 

[Victor Roberts]

The tire rating has more to do with safety than just with the speed
rating as said. Most states are particular enough about this (and
insurance companies) that it is against the law to put a lower rated
tire than what came from the manufacture. Most tire dealers will not
sell or put on a lower rated tire on your car for liability reasons.

Can you cite even one state law that supports your claim?

 

[Rick Courtright]

Can you cite even one state law that supports your claim?

Hi,

I've heard this is the case in many European countries, but as for state
laws here in the US, that's a new one on me. Here in SoCal several tire
dealers have told me the same thing: stay at or above the factory weight
ratings and use the speed ratings to decide how much "performance" you
think you need (remembering tire life is somewhat inversely proportional
to speed rating.) For example, my Subie came w/ "S" rated tires, my
Camry SE w/ "V" rated. While it's nice to think I'd be okay at 139 mph
or whatever the "V" rating is good for, the reality is that any of the
ratings is gonna be safe at "normal" freeway speeds of 65-75 mph, and
being stuck in traffic at 10 mph certainly doesn't require much
"performance" so AFAIC I COULD put "S" rated tires on the Camry and be
as safe as the Subie using MY driving conditions as the determinent.
Naturally, YMMV.

Rick

 

[tom klein]

according to the nhtsa
(http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/TireSafety/ridesonit/brochure.html),
"the speed rating denotes the speed at which a tire is designed to be
driven for extended periods of time." the lowest rating shown is "Q",
which is listed as 99 mph, whereas "H" is 130 mph.

note that there is absolutely no indication there, or anywhere else,
that speed rating correlates to any other tire characteristic, such as
handling or traction. its only bearing on safety is if you exceed the
rated speed, so i'd be curious to hear how often you manage to drive
your '04 forester faster than 99 mph "for extended periods of time".

in fact, i would actually expect snow tires to have a lower speed
rating than a comparable quality summer tire, since the speed rating is
mostly based on the ability to dissipate and withstand heat, which
isn't a big issue in winter conditions. (but even a lowly "Q" rating
doesn't mean that the snow tire will self-destruct on the first warm
day of spring.)

since the *lowest* speed rating starts at 99 mph, i think speed
ratings, especially ones that go all the way up to 186+ mph, are just
another testosterone-rich marketing gimmick, aimed at the street racing
wannabe crowd. (yes, i know that some cars can go that fast, but the
tire companies sell a lot more "fast tires" than there are "fast cars".)

it sounds to me like the tire merchant was engaging in a little
creative upselling. caveat emptor.



........ tom klein

 

[y_p_w]

note that there is absolutely no indication there, or anywhere else,
that speed rating correlates to any other tire characteristic, such as
handling or traction. its only bearing on safety is if you exceed the
rated speed, so i'd be curious to hear how often you manage to drive
your '04 forester faster than 99 mph "for extended periods of time".

Perhaps there's no required correlation. However - most tires
designed for extremely good handling will be in the upper ranges
of the speed ratings. There are some V-rated tires that are
known to handle better than other Z/W/Y rated tires of the same
size.

since the *lowest* speed rating starts at 99 mph, i think speed ratings,
especially ones that go all the way up to 186+ mph, are just another
testosterone-rich marketing gimmick, aimed at the street racing wannabe
crowd. (yes, i know that some cars can go that fast, but the tire
companies sell a lot more "fast tires" than there are "fast cars".)

The speed ratings actually aren't required by Federal law. Even the
load index isn't required. It's pretty much just industry norms that
speed-ratings and load indices are used.

it sounds to me like the tire merchant was engaging in a little creative
upselling. caveat emptor.

It's extremely common for winter tires to be of different size
and/or speed-rating that the original tires.

 

[Victor Roberts]

Hi,

I've heard this is the case in many European countries, but as for state
laws here in the US, that's a new one on me. Here in SoCal several tire
dealers have told me the same thing: stay at or above the factory weight
ratings and use the speed ratings to decide how much "performance" you
think you need (remembering tire life is somewhat inversely proportional
to speed rating.) For example, my Subie came w/ "S" rated tires, my
Camry SE w/ "V" rated. While it's nice to think I'd be okay at 139 mph
or whatever the "V" rating is good for, the reality is that any of the
ratings is gonna be safe at "normal" freeway speeds of 65-75 mph, and
being stuck in traffic at 10 mph certainly doesn't require much
"performance" so AFAIC I COULD put "S" rated tires on the Camry and be
as safe as the Subie using MY driving conditions as the determinent.
Naturally, YMMV.

Rick

A Google search did turn up the fact that Maine has a law
that requires that load AND speed ratings for replacement
tires be at least as high as the original tires. I can
understand the load rating but not the speed rating.

I did not find any other state laws that specify speed
ratings, but there may be some out there. Certainly not all
states have the same laws.

 

[Edward Hayes]

In a Subaru news group several people mentioned that their state did
not support using a tire of lower grade or ratings and said it was
illegal. I searched but, with 8000 + I gave up trying to find out in
what states it is illegal. Seems like a very good safety law to me as
the speed ratings are closely tied to handing because of sideway
stiffness and tread compound. So my claim is supported
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Victor Roberts]

In a Subaru news group several people mentioned that their state did
not support using a tire of lower grade or ratings and said it was
illegal. I searched but, with 8000 + I gave up trying to find out in
what states it is illegal. Seems like a very good safety law to me as
the speed ratings are closely tied to handing because of sideway
stiffness and tread compound. So my claim is supported
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You claim your statement about a law is correct because it
is logical AND you decided not to bother find specific
instances! I would love to see you in court

 

[Guest]

remembering tire life is somewhat inversely proportional
to speed rating.

That's been my experience as well.
Over 20 yrs ago I had H rated original tires on my chrysler TC3 car and
needed to change early because those Firestone originals were showing
serious weakness at only 32Kkms (20K miles). Those H rated tires had
very good winter traction, both the tread and side wall were a soft
rubber with good adhesion. My car couldn't come close to the very high
speed rating of the H tires, it's maximum speed being only 60% of the
rating.
My choice of replacement tire was a Michelin all season. I wanted to go
from the original 60 profile to 70, for slightly less harsh a ride.
According to my calculations the width of tire I selected would correct
my high speedometer reading. The weight bearing capacity of the 70
profile Michelins was slightly higher than the originals and both had
about 50% more weight capability than that light car would ever be.

Sears wouldn't mount the Michelins saying they would not mount a
different tire than originals even though it was more than capable than
handling my car.

So a Chrysler dealer who had a bit more common sense got the sale. They
agreed that the different size Michelins were more than up to the task.
Those Michelins performed very well, traction equal to the original
Firestones and of course a much lower rate of wear plus more durable.
Cornering was slightly less crisp but still very good.
Oh yes I didn't sign any waiver of responsibility.

 

[Jirí Lejsek]

For a H rated summer tires it is usual to use T rated winter tires (190
km/h) = one step down.
According to my experience it is not advisable to use high rated (summer)
tires.
High rated tires are constructed to resist high speeds that are not
typically used, so they don't warm up to optimal temperature (for optimal
grip) - they stay cold (unless you drive aggressively).
Jiri

 

[k. ote]

First of all, the speed rating only applies to dry regular
pavement. Anyone driving 99 MPH in deep snow is an idiot.

.... or practising for a Rally ...

I mean come on, this is Subaru after all.