Problems with HD Radio in your Subaru?

S

strublesscam

"HD Car Radio Investigation"

"The trial lawyers at Keefe Bartels, LLC are currently investigating
the marketing and sales of HD car radios by certain car manufacturers.
Consumer statutes and laws protect the purchasers of products such as
HD car radios. A party may be legally liable for statements, omissions
or misrepresentations of material facts that should have been known to
be false or misleading and promoted the sale of the product. Such laws
protect innocent consumers from unlawful and deceptive practices. The
victims of questionable business practices by parties such automobile
manufacturers are the consumers who purchase or lease cars with HD car
radios at significantly increased costs when these devices fail to
function as they are represented to work."

http://www.keefebartels.com/CM/Custom/HD-Car-Radio-Investigation.asp
 
"HD Car Radio Investigation"

"The trial lawyers at Keefe Bartels, LLC are currently investigating
the marketing and sales of HD car radios by certain car manufacturers.
Consumer statutes and laws protect the purchasers of products such as
HD car radios. A party may be legally liable for statements, omissions
or misrepresentations of material facts that should have been known to
be false or misleading and promoted the sale of the product. Such laws
protect innocent consumers from unlawful and deceptive practices. The
victims of questionable business practices by parties such automobile
manufacturers are the consumers who purchase or lease cars with HD car
radios at significantly increased costs when these devices fail to
function as they are represented to work."

http://www.keefebartels.com/CM/Custom/HD-Car-Radio-Investigation.asp

In case you were wondering, the precise term is 'barratry' A.K.A.
'ambulance chasing'. You can't even avoid the trolling shysters here.
 
In case you were wondering, the precise term is 'barratry' A.K.A.
'ambulance chasing'. You can't even avoid the trolling shysters here.

"The People v. HD Radio"

"It's not quite going in that direction - yet - but another law firm
has opened an inquiry into 'defective' HD Radio receivers in high-end
automobiles. The first firm on the scene, Keefe Bartels, is now
soliciting consumer complaints about problems with HD Radio reception.
Details are few, but there's always the chance - if a lawsuit is filed
- that the plaintiffs could push for class-action status. Both firms
appear to be working in concert. That would be a significant nail in
iBiquity's coffin: receiver manufacturers, already unenthused with the
product, will stay well away from the technology... There's also the
possibility that lawsuits could be filed between radio stations
suffering interference from other stations that have deployed HD side-
channels. Since the FCC is doing nothing with at least three pending
complaints, the victim-stations suffering HD-induced interference may
have no recourse but the courts. Were any of these legal
potentialities to be realized, 'game-changer' is not strong enough to
denote the consequences."


"HD Radio Not High Definition"

"Despite iBiquity’s claims of improved sound quality and transmission,
there have been numerous complaints about HD Radio not only from the
radio industry, but also from consumers. These complaints have
included: insufficient numbers of HD Radio stations... Automakers are
aware of the complaints associated with HD Radio. For example, in
2007, BMW released a Service Information Bulletin describing the
problems associated with HD Radio, but noted that there was no
retrofit kit or procedure available. The attorneys at Keefe Bartels
are continuing their investigation into HD Radio and whether consumers
are being forced to purchase technology that does not work as
claimed."

"Law Firm's HD Radio Probe Still in Early Days"

"Keefe Bartels, the law firm that's looking into whether consumers are
unhappy with their new HD Radio car receivers, is hearing lots of
stories... Keefe became interested in the technology when he bought a
new BMW a couple of years ago. He says the dealer told him HD Radio
wouldn't work but that it was built into the cost of the car, because
the receiver was part of a package. He says the dealer threw in a set
of floor mats to compensate... Keefe says it is receiving complaints
from all kinds of people and wants to determine how individuals have
been affected... He's also getting an earful from radio industry
people, so this should be interesting."


"Volvo Makes HD Radio Standard Across All Vehicles"

"With our 2010 and 2011 models, Volvo drivers can expect the best in
audio quality, more music and news/talk through multicast channels,
and advanced data services with scrolling text that shows artist name
and title, and much more, said Doug Speck, President/CEO of Volvo Cars
of North America, LLC."

"Automotive Recall and TSB Titles for 2009 and 2010 Volvos"

"TJ20784 MAR 09 Audio System - HD Radio(R) Troubleshooting
Guidelines"
"TJ20306 DEC 08 Campaign - HD Radio Software Update"


"Radio’s Revenue Falls Even as Audience Grows"

“HD radio is pretty much going to be nonexistent, because they can’t
figure out how to get the auto guys to include that as an option, and
the auto guys that do include HD don’t let the consumers know about
it, Ms. Ryvicker of Wachovia Capital Markets said."
 
"HD Car Radio Investigation"

"The trial lawyers at Keefe Bartels, LLC are currently investigating
the marketing and sales of HD car radios by certain car manufacturers.
Consumer statutes and laws protect the purchasers of products such as
HD car radios. A party may be legally liable for statements, omissions
or misrepresentations of material facts that should have been known to
be false or misleading and promoted the sale of the product. Such laws
protect innocent consumers from unlawful and deceptive practices. The
victims of questionable business practices by parties such automobile
manufacturers are the consumers who purchase or lease cars with HD car
radios at significantly increased costs when these devices fail to
function as they are represented to work."

http://www.keefebartels.com/CM/Custom/HD-Car-Radio-Investigation.asp


Gee, you posting this in every auto group?

Business is bad, so you're hosting a class action lawsuit so you and the
principals can walk away with megabucks, and the rest of us get a $5
coupon?

For one thing, you're a spamming asshole. For another, there are
limitations with HD radio. From your little blurb it seems that HD radio
is not HD enough, and if you're talking FM, you're right. There isn't that
much a difference. If you're talking AM, there's a HUGE difference.

Why don't you take your class-action, and the principals, and shove it all
right up your ass?
 
"HD Car Radio Investigation"

"The trial lawyers at Keefe Bartels, LLC are currently investigating
the marketing and sales of HD car radios by certain car manufacturers.

As best I know, Subaru does not offer HD Radio in any of it¹s cars.
Please correct me gently if I am wrong.

And BTW, it¹s not high definition, it¹s hybrid digital, though Ibiquity
(the company that holds the patent on HD Radio) says it doesn¹t stand
for anything, it¹s just a slogan.
 
As best I know, Subaru does not offer HD Radio in any of it¹s cars.  
Please correct me gently if I am wrong.

And BTW, it¹s not high definition, it¹s hybrid digital, though Ibiquity
(the company that holds the patent on HD Radio) says it doesn¹t stand
for anything, it¹s just a slogan.

Peter Ferrara, of the HD Radio Alliance, stated that the term was
"somewhat of a steal from HDTV". Don't worry, we have been feeding
John Keefe a lot of information which they have verified.
 
Gee, you posting this in every auto group?

Business is bad, so you're hosting a class action lawsuit so you and the
principals can walk away with megabucks, and the rest of us get a $5
coupon?

For one thing, you're a spamming asshole. For another, there are
limitations with HD radio. From your little blurb it seems that HD radio
is not HD enough, and if you're talking FM, you're right. There isn't that
much a difference. If you're talking AM, there's a HUGE difference.

Why don't you take your class-action, and the principals, and shove it all
right up your ass?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"For one thing, you're a spamming asshole. Why don't you take your
class-action,
and the principals, and shove it all right up your ass?"

WOW!!! LMFAO!!!!!

Yes, I posted these links in most of the auto forums. But wait, that
is nothing -
I have trashed the Web with links to Keefe Bartels and my Farce blog.
Most of
the auto forums on the Web have backlinks to Bartels, put there by one
of
their clerks, and myself. LOL!
 
"For one thing, you're a spamming asshole. Why don't you take your
class-action,
and the principals, and shove it all right up your ass?"

WOW!!! LMFAO!!!!!

Yes, I posted these links in most of the auto forums. But wait, that
is nothing -
I have trashed the Web with links to Keefe Bartels and my Farce blog.
Most of
the auto forums on the Web have backlinks to Bartels, put there by one
of
their clerks, and myself. LOL!


Yeah. What the **** for? Who's making the megabucks on this "lawsuit"?

Anybody with half a brain and an ND radio in the car knows it's in infancy
and that the current state of the art is low wattage right now for HD. As
it becomes more prolific the stations will most likely increase the
wattage and make the signal stronger, therby making it a more viable
medium.

It's a bullshit lawsuit.
 
Yeah. What the **** for? Who's making the megabucks on this "lawsuit"?

Anybody with half a brain and an ND radio in the car knows it's in infancy
and that the current state of the art is low wattage right now for HD. As
it becomes more prolific the stations will most likely increase the
wattage and make the signal stronger, therby making it a more viable
medium.

I'm running a JVC HD head unit in my Soob, and have been around HD
radio for awhile. I'm also a radio tech, so some slightly deeper info to
help explain some basics.

HD definitely is an improvement over straight analog AM or FM (much more
on AM). It's quieter, better fidelity, and much less multipath (FM)
problems.... but only if the signal level is high enough.

That's the big issue. FCC rules limit you to "what's on the license" for
TOTAL emissions (ERP). That's including the standard broadcast,
sub-carrier(SCA) stuff like MUZAK, paging services, traffic data for
your GPS (RDS), and any added HD channels.

On FM, most stations have an ERP (Effective Radiated Power) somewhere
between 25 to 100 kilowatts. They don't want to cut the power to their
main services , so it's rare to see HD subchannels much over 1 kilowatt.
Many are 100-250 watts! But... those are "very efficient watts". It's
extremely hard to put any kind of *consistent* 'improvement factor' on
HD over analog, but I've seen 2 to 5 times the range vs quality for HD
over analog FM for same ERP when conditions permit comparison
(locations, other interference, etc all make this confusing).

If there was some "mandate" going to bump up the HD receiver count, and
no inflated hi-markup for HD receivers, the broadcasters would up their
HD ERP in a heartbeat.

But.. there's no real push for HD in the US, and there's about a 25-50%
markup just to put the HD logo on the gear.

It's a bullshit lawsuit.

I agree..



--
"Shit this is it, all the pieces do fit.
We're like that crazy old man jumping
out of the alleyway with a baseball bat,
saying, "Remember me motherfucker?"
Jim “Dandy” Mangrum
 
I'm running a JVC HD head unit in my Soob, and have been around HD
radio for awhile. I'm also a radio tech, so some slightly deeper info to
help explain some basics.

HD definitely is an improvement over straight analog AM or FM (much more
on AM). It's quieter, better fidelity, and much less multipath (FM)
problems.... but only if the signal level is high enough.

That's the big issue. FCC rules limit you to "what's on the license" for
TOTAL emissions (ERP). That's including the standard broadcast,
sub-carrier(SCA) stuff like MUZAK, paging services, traffic data for
your GPS (RDS), and any added HD channels.

On FM, most stations have an ERP (Effective Radiated Power) somewhere
between 25 to 100 kilowatts. They don't want to cut the power to their
main services , so it's rare to see HD subchannels much over 1 kilowatt.
Many are 100-250 watts! But... those are "very efficient watts". It's
extremely hard to put any kind of *consistent* 'improvement factor' on
HD over analog, but I've seen 2 to 5 times the range vs quality for HD
over analog FM for same ERP when conditions permit comparison
(locations, other interference, etc all make this confusing).

If there was some "mandate" going to bump up the HD receiver count, and
no inflated hi-markup for HD receivers, the broadcasters would up their
HD ERP in a heartbeat.

But.. there's no real push for HD in the US, and there's about a 25-50%
markup just to put the HD logo on the gear.

Thanks for that. I'm an electronics tech and an audiophile, and knew the
basics of HD, and also knew at this time it's low power. There are only a
few around here; a rural space in Mass where VT and NH come together. It
SEEMS if you don't have a clear "Line of sight" the signal cuts right out.


I just got a JVC HD, and FM does not benefit as much as AM, for sure. AM
now sounds like FM, FM sounds a little /too/ "digital". That will probably
go away when power increases.

I agree..


Really. These idiots are blaming the car companies for the shortcomings of
the radio stations.

But no one ever said class-action lawayers were good at anything other
than making money.
 
Thanks for that. I'm an electronics tech and an audiophile, and knew the
basics of HD, and also knew at this time it's low power. There are only a
few around here; a rural space in Mass where VT and NH come together. It
SEEMS if you don't have a clear "Line of sight" the signal cuts right out.

Considering FM broadcast is "mostly LOS" (some groundwave), it could
factor in somewhat but it's mostly low signal level due to the low ERP.

Digital broadcast radio (and DTV) "fades out" differently than analog.
With analog, it's a 'progressive worsening'. Digital is pretty much
all-good to all-bad with no in-between fuzziness.

Another probable:
HD (usually) requires another antenna bay on the tower. Since
broadcasters are not really putting forth a big effort on HD, they
probably mount the new bay lower on the tower to cut costs.

I just got a JVC HD, and FM does not benefit as much as AM, for sure. AM
now sounds like FM, FM sounds a little /too/ "digital". That will probably
go away when power increases.

I suspect the "too digi" is just something that hasn't been worked out
fully, something like the pre-emp/de-emp curves back in the vinyl days.


Really. These idiots are blaming the car companies for the shortcomings of
the radio stations.

But no one ever said class-action lawayers were good at anything other
than making money.

There have been a *few* good class-action suites done over the years,
but this one *has* to be just a cash-cow attempt. I didn't see any
provisions for consumer damages, and I'd love to see them get anything
out of the broadcasters.

--
"Shit this is it, all the pieces do fit.
We're like that crazy old man jumping
out of the alleyway with a baseball bat,
saying, "Remember me motherfucker?"
Jim “Dandy” Mangrum
 
Yeah. What the **** for? Who's making the megabucks on this "lawsuit"?

Anybody with half a brain and an ND radio in the car knows it's in infancy
and that the current state of the art is low wattage right now for HD. As
it becomes more prolific the stations will most likely increase the
wattage and make the signal stronger, therby making it a more viable
medium.

It's a bullshit lawsuit.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hardly. Bartels and Wolf are getting lots of complaints about HD.
Consumers are being forced (if HD is standard) to pay for this faulty
technology, as iBiquity's royalties and costs to install HD are
included in the cost of the cars. There will also be a class-action by
non-HD broadcasters. Both Volvo and BMW have outstanding TSBs against
HD, yet continue to install it. The automakers and iBiquity are
fucked. As for the FM-HD power increase, only 150 stations have an
interest in upping power, and only a handfull have gone -10db. Few
stations will go to the costs of installing new HD transmitters again,
and increase their power bills again. This is a scam of all scams, and
I hope they get Struble for auto fraud. Struble would make Bernie
Madoff blush.

Why are you all so angry? LMFAO!!!
 
Hardly. Bartels and Wolf are getting lots of complaints about HD.
Consumers are being forced (if HD is standard) to pay for this faulty
technology, as iBiquity's royalties and costs to install HD are
included in the cost of the cars. There will also be a class-action by
non-HD broadcasters. Both Volvo and BMW have outstanding TSBs against
HD, yet continue to install it. The automakers and iBiquity are
fucked. As for the FM-HD power increase, only 150 stations have an
interest in upping power, and only a handfull have gone -10db. Few
stations will go to the costs of installing new HD transmitters again,
and increase their power bills again. This is a scam of all scams, and
I hope they get Struble for auto fraud. Struble would make Bernie
Madoff blush.

Why are you all so angry? LMFAO!!!


Because I don't like bullshit lawsuits where the lawyers and the
principles make out like bandits and everyone else gets a $5 coupon for a
scalp massage.

Top it off by posting across Usenet, and I smell fish.

In my car the HD is selectable. You don't NEED to listen to it.


But then, I pull the oeM crap radios out and put in better front ends.
 

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