pages of head gasket complaints in this newgroup

[bj]

to the doubters,subaru employees or those living on other planets who
refuse to open their eyes...just type in "head gasket" in the search
box and read the pages of head gasket problems...these are fellow
members of this newgroup

enuf said

 

[Larry Van Wormer]

to the doubters,subaru employees or those living on other planets who
refuse to open their eyes...just type in "head gasket" in the search
box and read the pages of head gasket problems...these are fellow
members of this newgroup

enuf said

This everlasting and fairly tiresome (how many times can this be
repeated, anyway?) thread finally prompted me to do just this check, for
several brands of vehicle, on Google newsgroup search. I got:

Subaru, 757 hits

toyota, 4800 hits

hyundai, 211 hits

honda, 3440 hits

ford, 9260 hits

My query words were, for example: subaru head gasket problem

I don't doubt the Subaru head gasket problem, or that for the other
makes. I'm not a Subaru employee, just the pretty satisfied owner of a
MY02 Impreza. Yes, it had a slight head gasket external weep, which
prompted the dealer to replace both head gaskets under warranty.

Larry Van Wormer

 

[bj]

larrrry...if its tiresome , then why bother answering it.?.

..i'm posting these complaints and fixes for the poor smuck who's engine
overheats,leaks coolant or otherwise doesn't have a guess at whats
wrong...and the mechanic tells hims it's a collapsed hose, a bad water
pump or a "maybe we'll just add this coolant additive and hopefully
that'll bring ya over the 100,000 warranty so we won't have to replace
the gasket,heads or engine". So it's not about you or me Larrrrry....i
am a mechanic...its for that bloke who can't turn a wrench....

 

[Larry Van Wormer]

larrrry...if its tiresome , then why bother answering it.?.

.i'm posting these complaints and fixes for the poor smuck who's engine
overheats,leaks coolant or otherwise doesn't have a guess at whats
wrong...and the mechanic tells hims it's a collapsed hose, a bad water
pump or a "maybe we'll just add this coolant additive and hopefully
that'll bring ya over the 100,000 warranty so we won't have to replace
the gasket,heads or engine". So it's not about you or me Larrrrry....i
am a mechanic...its for that bloke who can't turn a wrench....

You are quite right, I shouldn't have bothered. Just wasted more time.

 

[Glenn Pure]

This everlasting and fairly tiresome (how many times can this be
repeated, anyway?) thread finally prompted me to do just this check, for
several brands of vehicle, on Google newsgroup search. I got:

Subaru, 757 hits

toyota, 4800 hits

hyundai, 211 hits

honda, 3440 hits

ford, 9260 hits

My query words were, for example: subaru head gasket problem

I don't doubt the Subaru head gasket problem, or that for the other
makes. I'm not a Subaru employee, just the pretty satisfied owner of a
MY02 Impreza. Yes, it had a slight head gasket external weep, which
prompted the dealer to replace both head gaskets under warranty.

Larry Van Wormer

Market share needs to be considered. Data on recent US sales can be
found at:

http://www.morgancom.com/automotivenews.htm

Figures are (2004/05):

Subaru: 0.19 million
Toyota: 2.17 m
Honda: 1.40 m
Ford: 3.03 m

However, long term total sales would be better - but a lot more work
to dig up.

Cheers
Glenn

Glenn Pure
Canberra, Australia
Web page: http://www.evans-pure.net

 

[Jim L]

Right on Glenn,
And....it may be tiresome for you, but for me it is a worry....I had a
slight weep but the dealer decided to put the conditioner in and not replace
the HG.....it is in the eye of the beholder and there are a lot of us
(percentage wise)

Jim,
Redmond,WA

 

[Larry Van Wormer]

Market share needs to be considered. Data on recent US sales can be
found at:

http://www.morgancom.com/automotivenews.htm

Figures are (2004/05):

Subaru: 0.19 million
Toyota: 2.17 m
Honda: 1.40 m
Ford: 3.03 m

However, long term total sales would be better - but a lot more work
to dig up.

Agreed. Also, the data would have to be scanned, since one obsessed
individual can generate a lot of extra hits to skew the data.

I think we can assume that the owners of most makes would be about
equally inclined to air their problems on the 'net.

About the only interesting point I took from the data is that Hyundai
seems to have very few head gasket failures...

Larry Van Wormer

 

[Mickey]

Right on Glenn,
And....it may be tiresome for you, but for me it is a worry....I had a
slight weep but the dealer decided to put the conditioner in and not replace
the HG.....it is in the eye of the beholder and there are a lot of us
(percentage wise)

Jim,
Redmond,WA

IMO the coolant conditioner is just a delaying tactic and not a fix.
My HG went out at about 125k miles and did have the coolant additive
added a long time before that. The indie shop I used told me 125k
miles was typ mileage for when HG problems usually shows up.

IMO SOA is using the additive to lower their chances of having to foot
the bill when the gasket will fail.

My mechanic said he has never seen a failure of the latest HG design,
Rev 3.

Mickey

 

[amanda992004]

My mechanic said he has never seen a failure of the latest HG design, Rev 3.
What year would be with that latest design?

 

[bj]

i think amanda the newer engines..04 and later are ok and i wouldn't
worry..my forester is a great car, the AWD is the best and it just may
save your life. It's only the older engines 96+ which give me pause.

 

[Larry Van Wormer]

IMO the coolant conditioner is just a delaying tactic and not a fix. My
HG went out at about 125k miles and did have the coolant additive added
a long time before that. The indie shop I used told me 125k miles was
typ mileage for when HG problems usually shows up.

IMO SOA is using the additive to lower their chances of having to foot
the bill when the gasket will fail.

My mechanic said he has never seen a failure of the latest HG design,
Rev 3.

Mickey

The concerns themselves are certainly NOT tiresome! Mickey, was your
head gasket failure an external weep, or an internal failure, loss of
compression gases into the coolant? Also, if you don't mind, what year
is your OB? I've spent some time searching the 'net, and so far haven't
turned up any real evidence of HG failures after MY02. (Mind you,up 'til
now, I'd not found any evidence the conditioner failed either. Lots of
concerns about it, but no hard evidence.)

Larry Van Wormer

 

[M. Butkus]

I had someone with a 2000 Outback that had the head gasket go and after many
many months of complaints. Got half of it back.

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

there are potentially a LOT of variables that could drastically skew the
data. Distribution of sports models to luxury models with the age
demographic thrown in. Sex distribution, AWD vs 2WD (AWD subject to
being driven in harsher conditions/off road) global distribution
(vehicles used in areas where factory trained service is difficult to
obtain). Plus, how many years/models are you willing to average in? Do
those Ford hits include Model Ts?

Carl

 

[Larry Van Wormer]

there are potentially a LOT of variables that could drastically skew the
data. Distribution of sports models to luxury models with the age
demographic thrown in. Sex distribution, AWD vs 2WD (AWD subject to
being driven in harsher conditions/off road) global distribution
(vehicles used in areas where factory trained service is difficult to
obtain). Plus, how many years/models are you willing to average in? Do
those Ford hits include Model Ts?

Sure to some of those, but I think the data would be at least
approximately useful with much simpler assumptions. If a drive train is
properly designed, the cooling system should stay within design limits
if properly maintained, and the head gaskets should stay sealed. Even if
no factory trained service is available, or 2WD or AWD. Age limits are
pretty simple too, can be quite arbitrary. (I'd say, ten year limit)

the results would still contain a significant error, yes. The internet
is not typically a source of good statistical data. But gross
differences would be meaningful. Small ones would not.

Larry Van Wormer

 

[Dr. Rastis Fafoofnik]

What year would be with that latest design?

Ask the mechanic DIPSHIT!

 

[Mickey]

The concerns themselves are certainly NOT tiresome! Mickey, was your
head gasket failure an external weep, or an internal failure, loss of
compression gases into the coolant? Also, if you don't mind, what year
is your OB? I've spent some time searching the 'net, and so far haven't
turned up any real evidence of HG failures after MY02. (Mind you,up 'til
now, I'd not found any evidence the conditioner failed either. Lots of
concerns about it, but no hard evidence.)

Larry Van Wormer

00 OBW, was an small external leak that is typ for SOHC 2.5 engines.
If memory serves me correct it was sometime during model yr 02 that
the problem was no longer the issue it was prior to that time. From
comments at the shop, the normal location for the leak was left
(driver) side, rear cyl.

I never actually saw where the leak originated from but could see
drops of coolant on one of the bolt heads that hold the lower engine
cover at the rear.

I had the Subaru conditioner in the engine prior to the failure. What
I did do after having a freak radiator failure was add a over-the
-counter stop leak that had the same appearance. Neither product
prevented the HG failure but what did happen was the stop leak plugged
up the radiator after almost a yr. Subie radiators have very small
passages and can and do get plugged up if normal stop leak products
are used. Radiator shop commented on how small the passages were but
they did get the radiator cleaned out.

Mickey

 

[Edward Hayes]

Subaru was VERY clear that the "stuff" Subaru recommended and sold by
Subaru was the one they tested and RECOMMENDED. people keep trying to
out guess the manufacture who has tested and has hard data and then
problems arise and they blame problems on someone else but,never
themselves. Most or many of use do not consider coolant weeping a
failure mode like GMs gasket failures that allows coolant into the
crankcase causing bearing failure or worse.

 

[Mickey]

Subaru was VERY clear that the "stuff" Subaru recommended and sold by
Subaru was the one they tested and RECOMMENDED. people keep trying to
out guess the manufacture who has tested and has hard data and then
problems arise and they blame problems on someone else but,never
themselves. Most or many of use do not consider coolant weeping a
failure mode like GMs gasket failures that allows coolant into the
crankcase causing bearing failure or worse.

No complaint from me. Just reported what I did and I paid the price.
Car had more than 100k miles on it at the time so it wasn't a
warranty issue. Maybe my comments will inform others what can happen
in a situation like this.

It does reinforce the notion that Subie aren't like normal cars.
Using non-OEM parts can lead to problems. So far to me this seems to
apply to engine related things. With Subies not being popular in some
areas it would be nice to be able to go down to local parts store and
buy decent qlty aftermarket parts and feel safe that they will work as
intended.

Mickey