Manually shifting an Automatic

G

Greg Morris

Hi All,

I am the proud owner of a 2001 H6 VDC, picked up yesterday. The car has
94000 Km (58000 mi) on it, (all highway I'm told), but is otherwise
beautiful!

My other car is a 96 Mustang GT with auto trans. I shift the Mustang
manually (1-2-D instead of just D) almost exclusively. I also manually
downshift from D to 2 when coming to a stop.

Anyone have an opinion of using this technique with the Subie? I checked
out some reports on the net that said the repair frequency of Subaru
transmissions is higher than normal. Don't want to do my new baby any harm!

Greg
 
I up-shift and down-shift my Forester when I'm in a sporting mood (once or
twice a day) and have suffered no problems in ~ 60,000 miles of driving. ed
 
why didn't you just buy a manual?

Greg Morris said:
Hi All,

I am the proud owner of a 2001 H6 VDC, picked up yesterday. The car has
94000 Km (58000 mi) on it, (all highway I'm told), but is otherwise
beautiful!

My other car is a 96 Mustang GT with auto trans. I shift the Mustang
manually (1-2-D instead of just D) almost exclusively. I also manually
downshift from D to 2 when coming to a stop.

Anyone have an opinion of using this technique with the Subie? I checked
out some reports on the net that said the repair frequency of Subaru
transmissions is higher than normal. Don't want to do my new baby any harm!

Greg
 
Hi,
Today's auto tranny is smarter than you, IMO.
Why bother? makes you feel good? Afraid to drive manual?
Even my daughter who never drove manual managed to drive
her friend's Passat with manual when the driver got too drunk
to drive home one week-end evening.
Tony
 
Tony,

Can't get a manual with the H6, at least in Canada.

I've driven manuals since '69. Mustang was my first automatic. I like the
control manuals give, and shifting an automatic is as close as I can come.
I especially like to use the D-2 shift coming up to a light to use engine
braking to slow the car. Sounds cool, too, at least in the 'Stang.

My concern is, is this going to harm the transmission? The 'Stang's tranny
is built to handle this kind of stress. The Subie, who knows? Also, AWD
components have to be considered. My question is, has anyone experienced
any tranny wear/damage from driving this way?

Greg
 
Because of the awful daily traffic. I do like manuals better if the traffic
would permit me to enjoy it. ed
 
I alwasy drop to 3rd when accelerating fast to pass or something. It's gonna
downshift anyway.
 
Greg said:
Tony,

Can't get a manual with the H6, at least in Canada.

I've driven manuals since '69. Mustang was my first automatic. I like the
control manuals give, and shifting an automatic is as close as I can come.
I especially like to use the D-2 shift coming up to a light to use engine
braking to slow the car. Sounds cool, too, at least in the 'Stang.

My concern is, is this going to harm the transmission? The 'Stang's tranny
is built to handle this kind of stress. The Subie, who knows? Also, AWD
components have to be considered. My question is, has anyone experienced
any tranny wear/damage from driving this way?

Greg


Brakes are for slowing the car down - even in a manual transmission car.
They are cheap and effective. You will prematurely wear out the
transmission in any car if driven in this manner.
 
Greg Morris said:
Hi All,

I am the proud owner of a 2001 H6 VDC, picked up yesterday. The car has
94000 Km (58000 mi) on it, (all highway I'm told), but is otherwise
beautiful!

My other car is a 96 Mustang GT with auto trans. I shift the Mustang
manually (1-2-D instead of just D) almost exclusively. I also manually
downshift from D to 2 when coming to a stop.

Anyone have an opinion of using this technique with the Subie? I checked
out some reports on the net that said the repair frequency of Subaru
transmissions is higher than normal. Don't want to do my new baby any harm!

Greg

Hello Greg

I shift manually too, mostly for engine braking on long slopes and
downshifting for passing - the best auto still doesn't know beforehand
when I'll pass... :) I have only had my car for ~5 months now so can't
vouch for longevity.

I do remember the Owner's Manual recommends using engine braking, even
with the automatic. I don't remember what it had to say about
upshifting. I'll go get it this morning and check.

Nicolas
 
Nicolas said:
Hello Greg

I shift manually too, mostly for engine braking on long slopes and
downshifting for passing - the best auto still doesn't know beforehand
when I'll pass... :)

Uh, it does if you floor it!

I have only had my car for ~5 months now so can't
 
Rob Munach said:
Nicolas Dore wrote:
[snip]
I shift manually too, mostly for engine braking on long slopes and
downshifting for passing - the best auto still doesn't know beforehand
when I'll pass... :)

Uh, it does if you floor it!

That's my point: I don't necessarily want to floor it, I just want to
downshift. There may be someone ahead... :)

I looked in my owner's manual and while it does not explicitely tell
you to downshift it does tell you to use engine braking on long
downhill roads (does not specify if that is with auto or manual
transmission) and it provides maximum downshift speeds for the 3-2-1
gears. By contrast my previous car's owner's manual, an old Mercedes,
specified not to use engine braking with the automatic transmission.
Might be that older, non-electronic transmissions, had trouble with
that.

I like to downshift so that I don't have to wait for the engine to
downshift. Yes, I would be happier with a manual but I did not have
the option.

Nicolas
 
Rob Munach said:
Uh, it does if you floor it!

Exactly. The tranny responds almost instantaneously if you ask it to.
Otherwise, why go down a gear anyway if you are not CERTAIN you are ready to
pass? Occasionally, I will downshift just before passing IF I can see that
the distance available is going to be short but I still have to wait for
another oncoming car to get by first. This possibly saves a fraction of
second.
The other time I use the manual shifting on my automatics (other than
the obvious steep-descent-for-braking purposes) is when climbing a long,
somewhat steep hill and it shifts down to 3rd anyway to sustain speed. I
then lock it down into 3rd so it does not prematurely come back up to 4th
before I finish the climb. Otherwise, it may lose speed again in 4th gear
because that gear cannot sustain the speed I am asking from it on the climb.
This saves the tranny from searching and keeps me easily sustaining the
speed I want. (I hate riding with someone when they let their tranny go up
and down between 3rd and 4th repeatedly on a climb.)
 
D H said:
Exactly. The tranny responds almost instantaneously if you ask it to.

Hum. The original question was: Does it damage the transmission to do
it? Subaru doesn't seem to think so, or at least doesn't mention it in
the owner's manual, and noone has come forward with information saying
that it is damaging.

Some people like to manually shift (me), some don't (Rob and DH).
Question of taste. Go figure.

Moving on... :)

Nicolas
 
Tony Hwang said:
Hi,
Today's auto tranny is smarter than you, IMO.
snip

Not sure about 2004's, but my 2001 legacy dosn't do a great job of
downshifting for acceleration depending on your speed. From what I remember
from reading reviews its a common problem with at least that year. Bottom
line is if I want make sure I know how the car is going to respond (ie need
guaranteed fast acceleration) I manually downshift.

F. Plant
 
Rob Munach wrote:
Brakes are for slowing the car down - even in a manual transmission
car. They are cheap and effective. You will prematurely wear out the
transmission in any car if driven in this manner.

I've seen this comment from several people on the alt.autos.audi group in
addition to here, and I have to disagree in the case of the manual: There
is no doubt that using the *clutch* to slow a car will wear the clutch, but
using the *engine* to slow the car causes no extra wear on anything, and can
actually save brake pads (though it likely uses more gas). The key, of
course, is matching revs between rotating components within the transmission
before coupling them together. This is accomplished by double-clutching to
match the lay shaft to the output shaft *before* engaging the lower gear
(reduces wear on synchros) and then matching engine RPM to the lay shaft
before releasing the clutch *after* engaging the lower gear (reduces wear on
the clutch). With a little practice, this entire evolution can be done in
about 2 seconds.

And with a little more practice, it can be performed while braking for a
corner by using the heel and toe of your right foot to operate both the
brake and accelerator pedals at the same time. (Much as I'd like to pretend
that I'm a pro at heel-and-toe braking, I have to confess that I'm still not
smooth enough with it to try it in a car that's at its limit in a corner --
I'm too herky-jerky with it to keep the car on its proper line. But I'm
getting better.) At least one person I know has a foot that's wide
enough -- and pedals spaced close enough -- to use the left and right
*sides* of his right foot to accomplish the same thing, rather than turning
his foot sidways and using his heel and toe. He's about 6 foot 14 and
drives a VW bug. I'm about 5 foot 6 and can't manage that maneuver on the
Audi (haven't yet tried on the Forester, which I've only test-driven so
far).

When driving the Olds (which has a 4-speed slushbox but is otherwise quite
sporty), I keep the car in L2 or L3 when driving through town, depending on
how fast the traffic is moving. The goal it to keep cruising revs between
about 2000 and 2500, thus giving me decent engine braking when I let off the
accelerator -- as well as good throttle response when desiring to speed back
up -- but not using that much more gas than loping along at just above idle.
If you change the selection while at a stoplight, you'll cause the
transmission zero extra wear, because it's already idling against the torque
converter in 1st gear anyway. Dropping the gear selector from D to L2 while
driving 50 mph (as an extreme example) will force the 2nd gear clutch pack
to absorb a substantial difference in revolutions -- which I've no doubt
will, with repetition, reduce the life of the transmission.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the smarter throttle-by-wire cars that
employ slushboxes actually blip the throttle upon selecting a lower gear so
as to simulate the manual tranny rev matching described above, and thereby
reduce the resulting wear on the auto transmission. This seems especially
likely given the number of new cars being offered with "manu-matic"
transmissions (auto transmissions with a "manual" mode, like the Porsche /
Audi Tiptronic or the tranny in my Dad's old Dodge Intrepid, to name just a
few). These automakers wouldn't offer a car with a feature that is likely
to increase their warranty repair costs.

- Greg

--
1976 Cadillac Fleetwood 9-passenger sedan
(for sale: http://www.dataspire.com/caddy)
1989 Audi 200 Turbo Quattro 5-speed sedan
2000 Oldsmobile Intrigue
2001 Chevy Astro AWD (wife's)
2004 Subaru Forester XT (turbo) 5-speed (coming soon!)
 

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