Manual paddle shifters .

[Ignaz]

I suspect they're gimmicks. I just traded in my 2017 Forester with stickshift, for a 2025 Forester Wilderness. The manual for the stickshift instructed that the driver should downshift on long descents, and I did so. Great! Somebody presumably figured out that's a better way to drive. The manual didn't say it was possible, it said it was proper. I don't read that in my new CVT manual, so I don't conclude it's overall a better way of driving.

 

[Raymond3006]

I suspect they're gimmicks. I just traded in my 2017 Forester with stickshift, for a 2025 Forester Wilderness. The manual for the stickshift instructed that the driver should downshift on long descents, and I did so. Great! Somebody presumably figured out that's a better way to drive. The manual didn't say it was possible, it said it was proper. I don't read that in my new CVT manual, so I don't conclude it's overall a better way of driving.

 

[Raymond3006]

If there are any doubts about using Manual-Shifting on CVT's , .... I suggest READING the entire PIKE-PEAK's Reqs for entering that Federal PARK ...... !!!

 

[Ignaz]

I thought they were silly gimmicks. Then I found the following on page 333 of the Owner's Manual for my 2025 Wilderness:

"Remember to make use of engine braking in addition to foot braking. When descending a grade, if only the foot brake is used, the brakes may start working improperly because of brake fluid overheating, caused by overheated brake pads. To help prevent this, shift to a lower gear to get stronger engine braking."

I do think that, considering the transmission is largely automatic, they might have had it do this on its own. Also, the paddle shifter on the right still doesn't seem to have much of a serious purpose. All the same, at least one of the paddles does have a serious function.

 

[Raymond3006]

maybe we should ask Tokyo about driving "S" vehicles up and down Mount Fuji elevated roadS ; or at least look up their "TOURIST" driving information for that Holy Shrine ...... !!!

 

[Train Dan]

It's been my experience that modern cars are underbraked, in terms of the beef in the rotors. This, to save weight in general, unsprung weight, and the inertia of the disc. All this has led to rotors that will overheat and warp, if not treated gently. Our daughter's Ascent had a terrible pulse in the brakes from this very issue.
I use the paddles on long descents, and also for grinding around on less than ideal roads. The RAV the Subie replaced had no paddles, so I had to use the gearshift lever.
Modern trannys are also programmed to shift early, so the ability to provoke a downshift (say, for a pass on a secondary road, or a merge on a busy interstate.)
Dan

 

[Raymond3006]

My "S" 2016's Paddles are almost a JOKE !
They barely deal with the Down-Shift requirements of Real-Life ; but they are all that I have , SO ..... !
It seems as though the Designers wanted to tease, but not actually Produce any meaningful results ! It is my guess that they did not want to "stress" the CVT by actually producing any real Braking-HP with the Engine , and maybe they are correct ; otherwise , they could have programmed the ECM to do some real braking by re-profiling the Engine Ignition & Valve Timing for some real useful BRAKING .... !

OR , ... maybe my particular vehicle needs to be "adjusted" by someone who knows about these re-programming "things" ... ???? Seems like someone out there should have already cracked this Fortune Cookie WIDE-OPEN , by NOW ... !!!!

Or , maybe the Torque-Converter simply can not handle the Pressures generated by Down-Shifting .... ? Hard to tell !
Since the Brake Rotors are so marginal in design, the Torque Converter probably is also on its ragged edge !

 

[Train Dan]

My "S" 2016's Paddles are almost a JOKE !
They barely deal with the Down-Shift requirements of Real-Life ; but they are all that I have , SO ..... !
It seems as though the Designers wanted to tease, but not actually Produce any meaningful results ! It is my guess that they did not want to "stress" the CVT by actually producing any real Braking-HP with the Engine , and maybe they are correct ; otherwise , they could have programmed the ECM to do some real braking by re-profiling the Engine Ignition & Valve Timing for some real useful BRAKING .... !

OR , ... maybe my particular vehicle needs to be "adjusted" by someone who knows about these re-programming "things" ... ???? Seems like someone out there should have already cracked this Fortune Cookie WIDE-OPEN , by NOW ... !!!!

Or , maybe the Torque-Converter simply can not handle the Pressures generated by Down-Shifting .... ? Hard to tell !
Since the Brake Rotors are so marginal in design, the Torque Converter probably is also on its ragged edge !

Raymond, you have a 9 year old car, with how many miles? How long have you had it? Did it always display the same responses?
Frankly, I'm not a huge fan of CVTs, and it isn't the best part of a unique vehicle. But mine has been behaving as expected thus far. Our son in law (our daughter refers to his car as a 'moveable dumpster') does the required maintenance, but the car isn't loved. It has a pile of miles, and it is still performing, with few significant issues.
Dan

 

[Raymond3006]

Raymond, you have a 9 year old car, with how many miles? How long have you had it? Did it always display the same responses?
Frankly, I'm not a huge fan of CVTs, and it isn't the best part of a unique vehicle. But mine has been behaving as expected thus far. Our son in law (our daughter refers to his car as a 'moveable dumpster') does the required maintenance, but the car isn't loved. It has a pile of miles, and it is still performing, with few significant issues.
Dan

At one point in my earlier Life , I was a Double-Clutching Freight Truck Operator ; I know how to use an Engine for Braking ; ....... ... using any part of a "S" system to Engine Brake , .... truely is a JOKE !!!!!

 

[Dave in Costa Rica]

9 and 3 o'clock unless you want a face full of airbag and knuckle sandwich.

The 9/3 hands position advice has long since replaced the 10/2 advice for good reason. In an accident, when the steering wheel air bag deploys, it can cause what's known as
"glove injuries" to the hands in the traditional 10/2 positions. I leave it to the reader to imagine what "glove injuries" would be like.

 

[Dave in Costa Rica]

It's said that brakes are cheaper than transmissions. That position is hard to dispute, but if your long downhill descent is long enough, your brakes may overheat beyond the point where they are functional.

Then, it's arguable that the stress on a transmission is cheaper than an ambulance ride, hospitalization, rehab, and the cost of a replacement vehicle.

 

[BarryB333]

I agree totally. I took a trip last summer that put me on a very long downhill run and using the engine/transmission to keep my speed down was a great asset. Using brakes alone would have heated up the brake pads too much. The paddle shifters are nice when used only when really needed.

 

[Raymond3006]

I agree totally. I took a trip last summer that put me on a very long downhill run and using the engine/transmission to keep my speed down was a great asset. Using brakes alone would have heated up the brake pads too much. The paddle shifters are nice when used only when really needed.

EXACTLY !
For those of US who had a Life Before The-Auto-Trans-Universe , .... DOWNHILL was always ENGINE-&-TRANS-FIRST (double-clutching & teeth-grinding !!) , and Brakes Only as a Last Resort ... to getting down to ZERO MPH , and pulling over till the brakes would not HISS when you spit on them !!!!

Folks who rely on their Brakes, and keep driving , ... are Risking not only their Life-and-Limbs, but also those around them!
Those folks are only Saved by the Grace ... of the Highway Design Engineers that use scientific Grade/Slope Information to limit their lack of knowledge from killing the rest of US !!!!!

 

[bmart]

Click and clack speak the truth.

https://www.cartalk.com/content/i-live-mountain-road-town