Electrical problems w/Outback Part 2

[Peter A]

Hi,

I've been experiencing odd electrical symptoms with my '96 Outback.
Occasionally, I'd lock the car with the keyless remote and notice that
the parking lights or taillights would illuminate and stay on.
Unlocking and relocking the car several times usually made the lights go
off.

These symptoms got worse and much more frequent. Once I came back to
the car and the battery was pretty much dead. When I turned the key to
start the car, all the dashboard and panel lights began flashing weakly
and slowly, on for a second and off for a second. The car wouldn't
start, but the flashing stopped after turning the key a few times, and I
was able to start it with jumper cables.

A few months ago, I found the battery dead again, and when I tried to
turn the key the driver's door lock went crazy, clicking rapidly as
though it was trying to lock and unlock quickly. The only way I could
get this to stop was pulling the fuse for the door locks.

I posted a message to this board at that point, and the advice was to
leave the fuse pulled and see if the problems went away. I've left the
fuse disconnected for a few months, and I've seen no electrical problems
at all. The fuse controls the electric door locks and probably also the
keyless entry system.

My question now is, what next? Is there any more troubleshooting I can
do before I take this into a repair shop? I don't want to pay for
someone to try to locate the source of trouble if I can do it myself.
Thanks in advance!

-Peter

 

[Todd H.]

Hi,

I've been experiencing odd electrical symptoms with my '96 Outback.
Occasionally, I'd lock the car with the keyless remote and notice that
the parking lights or taillights would illuminate and stay on.
Unlocking and relocking the car several times usually made the lights go
off.

These symptoms got worse and much more frequent. Once I came back to
the car and the battery was pretty much dead. When I turned the key to
start the car, all the dashboard and panel lights began flashing weakly
and slowly, on for a second and off for a second. The car wouldn't
start, but the flashing stopped after turning the key a few times, and I
was able to start it with jumper cables.

A few months ago, I found the battery dead again, and when I tried to
turn the key the driver's door lock went crazy, clicking rapidly as
though it was trying to lock and unlock quickly. The only way I could
get this to stop was pulling the fuse for the door locks.

I posted a message to this board at that point, and the advice was to
leave the fuse pulled and see if the problems went away. I've left the
fuse disconnected for a few months, and I've seen no electrical problems
at all. The fuse controls the electric door locks and probably also the
keyless entry system.

My question now is, what next? Is there any more troubleshooting I can
do before I take this into a repair shop? I don't want to pay for
someone to try to locate the source of trouble if I can do it myself.
Thanks in advance!

Sounds to me like the alarm unit's "brain" is fried. Specifically,
whatever sends the control signal to the door lock actuators and
lights. If you can locate that unit, and if it's available as a
separately replaceable component, do that.

My experience is that auto techs aren't terribly skilled or proficient
at debugging body electrical items (their forte is with things
mechanical), and even if you had a fast efficient one, the shop would
still probably charge you whatever the book estimate of hours was on
the job.

If you don't already own a service manual for your vehicle, this might
be an excellent opportunity to buy one to see how that electrical
item fits in with the larger system.

Best Regards,

 

[Skweezieweezie]

Maybe you have a relay sticking closed. Check to
see if there is a relay that controls the door locks.
Change it or clean it and see if that works.

 

[Todd H.]

Maybe you have a relay sticking closed. Check to
see if there is a relay that controls the door locks.
Change it or clean it and see if that works.

It's certain is a possibility. I considered that..but given that both
the doorlocks and light flashers are acting goofy, it suggests
something upstream of the light relay, hence my suggestion to the
original poster to try swapping out the alarm/keyless brain. Of
course, cleaning relays or replacing them is cheaper.

On some keyless entry units/alarms, the relatively low current of the
door lock actuators is handled directly by the alarm head unit itself,
while an external relay is required for the parking light flashing.
Some units, however use separate relays -- one for locks, one for
lights.

In either case, the alarm/keyless head unit is a more probable cause,
IMO, than the simultaneous failure of two relays. Caveat: my
justification falls to shit if by chance this system somehow uses one
relay to handle both the locks and lights.

Best Regards,

 

[smcx1]

Sounds to me like the alarm unit's "brain" is fried. Specifically,
whatever sends the control signal to the door lock actuators and
lights. If you can locate that unit, and if it's available as a
separately replaceable component, do that.

My experience is that auto techs aren't terribly skilled or proficient
at debugging body electrical items

I had the same problem. Took my car to a couple of local places (not
dealers) and they had no clue how to fix it.
Took it to the dealer and they just changed the malfunctioning electronics
box.
The dealer charged a fortune though, partly because they claimed it took them
several hours to track down the problem. (To me it seems it really should
take more like a couple of minutes!).
If you can get the box yourself and figure out how to take out the old one
and install the new box it would likely be a lot cheaper!

 

[Tony Hwang]

I had the same problem. Took my car to a couple of local places (not
dealers) and they had no clue how to fix it.
Took it to the dealer and they just changed the malfunctioning electronics
box.
The dealer charged a fortune though, partly because they claimed it took them
several hours to track down the problem. (To me it seems it really should
take more like a couple of minutes!).
If you can get the box yourself and figure out how to take out the old one
and install the new box it would likely be a lot cheaper!

Hi,
Why bother with dealer's unit? They're not made by Subaru anyhow. I just
install after market electronics gadgets myself. Never had problem.
Since I installed it, I can fix it as well knowing what is going on.
It could be poor wiring connection somewhere(ground maybe) or the brain
itself as already mentioned. Or relay sticking.
Tony

 

[Todd H.]

Hi,
Why bother with dealer's unit?
They're not made by Subaru anyhow.

They're worth investigating for the convenience of plug compatibility
and matching physical size, plus the reliability afforded by one's not
needing to hack into any wiring harnesses.

I just install after market electronics gadgets myself. Never had
problem. Since I installed it, I can fix it as well knowing what is
going on. It could be poor wiring connection somewhere(ground
maybe) or the brain itself as already mentioned. Or relay sticking.
Tony

True, but appreciate that there are folks who don't have time, desire,
or inclination to be figuring our wiring harness color codes and
risking further damage to their vehicles, and whose time they decide
is worth the extra $$ for the Subaru OEM'd brain.

That said, Tony brings up an interesting angle--if by chance the
Subaru part is a direct OEM from a manufacturer selling the same part
in the same form factor, with the same pinout...it may be an avenue to
saving some $$ if you can chase all that down. For instance, Honda CD
changers used to be OEM'd through Alpine, and you could buy an Alpine
CD changer and a special cable to interface to the Honda head unit for
half the cost of the Honda-sold changer upgrade. The only difference
between the OEM unit and the one Alpine sold in stores was the DIN
connector pinout--which a special cable took care of.

Best Regards,

 

[Tony Hwang]

Hi,
Locks are indirectly controlled by relay on any car.
Switch just controls the current going thru relay coil.
Un der the dash left side of steering column there is bank of relays.
Pblack plastic cube kinda looking ones. Actuate switch and will hear it
clicking.

 

[Tony Hwang]

They're worth investigating for the convenience of plug compatibility
and matching physical size, plus the reliability afforded by one's not
needing to hack into any wiring harnesses.




True, but appreciate that there are folks who don't have time, desire,
or inclination to be figuring our wiring harness color codes and
risking further damage to their vehicles, and whose time they decide
is worth the extra $$ for the Subaru OEM'd brain.

That said, Tony brings up an interesting angle--if by chance the
Subaru part is a direct OEM from a manufacturer selling the same part
in the same form factor, with the same pinout...it may be an avenue to
saving some $$ if you can chase all that down. For instance, Honda CD
changers used to be OEM'd through Alpine, and you could buy an Alpine
CD changer and a special cable to interface to the Honda head unit for
half the cost of the Honda-sold changer upgrade. The only difference
between the OEM unit and the one Alpine sold in stores was the DIN
connector pinout--which a special cable took care of.

Hi,
That is the problem. Even if you can know who the OEM supplier is, plug
to plug compatibility is not given. BTW, I am not afraid of hacking into
wirings. I enjoy doing things I can myself. The feeling of satisfaction
and also money can be saved. Back is in EE(retired; all the way from
vacuum tubes to today's micro electronics) Yes, indeed, if not sure,
better not.....
Tony

 

[Peter A]

(e-mail address removed) wrote in

I had the same problem. Took my car to a couple of local places (not
dealers) and they had no clue how to fix it.
Took it to the dealer and they just changed the malfunctioning
electronics box.
The dealer charged a fortune though, partly because they claimed it
took them several hours to track down the problem. (To me it seems it
really should take more like a couple of minutes!).
If you can get the box yourself and figure out how to take out the old
one and install the new box it would likely be a lot cheaper!

Thanks to everyone for the great head start. I picked up the service
manual today, so I'll do some reading. The car has the factory keyless
entry, but no alarm system. If it is an electronics box that's gone
haywire, are we talking about the control for the electric locks or for
the keyless entry? Or would they be one and the same? (I have another
car with an aftermarket keyless, so I'm guessing it might be a
completely separate unit.)

Any advice about where to read up on the relays, coils and switches
involved would also be appreciated. I don't have an EE background, but
I have a troubleshooter's mind and a good set of tools, and I'm too
cheap to plunk down good money at the dealer's if I don't have to!

-Peter

 

[Todd H.]

Thanks to everyone for the great head start. I picked up the service
manual today, so I'll do some reading. The car has the factory keyless
entry, but no alarm system. If it is an electronics box that's gone
haywire, are we talking about the control for the electric locks or for
the keyless entry? Or would they be one and the same?

They may be one in the same. Your service manual will help you
determine.

Any advice about where to read up on the relays, coils and switches
involved would also be appreciated. I don't have an EE background,
but I have a troubleshooter's mind and a good set of tools, and I'm
too cheap to plunk down good money at the dealer's if I don't have
to!

A relay is just a device that uses a little current from some
electronics to operate a big mechanical switch. Think of it as an
electrical lever of sorts. Physically they're usually squarish,
about the size of a D battery, and have wires coming out of one end.

Design wise, you need these for controlling high current devices like
lights. If a relay goes bad, it causes the little current from the
"brain" of the keyless entry system or alarm to be unable to reliably
control the big current to the doorlock actuators or lights, or what
have you.

 

[Peter A]

Hi,

I've been experiencing odd electrical symptoms with my '96 Outback.
Occasionally, I'd lock the car with the keyless remote and notice that
the parking lights or taillights would illuminate and stay on.
Unlocking and relocking the car several times usually made the lights go
off.

These symptoms got worse and much more frequent. Once I came back to
the car and the battery was pretty much dead. When I turned the key to
start the car, all the dashboard and panel lights began flashing weakly
and slowly, on for a second and off for a second. The car wouldn't
start, but the flashing stopped after turning the key a few times, and I
was able to start it with jumper cables.

A few months ago, I found the battery dead again, and when I tried to
turn the key the driver's door lock went crazy, clicking rapidly as
though it was trying to lock and unlock quickly. The only way I could
get this to stop was pulling the fuse for the door locks.

I posted a message to this board at that point, and the advice was to
leave the fuse pulled and see if the problems went away. I've left the
fuse disconnected for a few months, and I've seen no electrical problems
at all. The fuse controls the electric door locks and probably also the
keyless entry system.

My question now is, what next? Is there any more troubleshooting I can
do before I take this into a repair shop? I don't want to pay for
someone to try to locate the source of trouble if I can do it myself.
Thanks in advance!

-Peter

Thanks to all the great advice! I found the keyless entry control unit,
tucked back above the fuse box and strapped on with a cable tie. It was
simple to remove, just a couple of wiring harnesses attached. It is not
the same unit that controls the electric locks -- I removed the keyless
entry control unit, popped the fuse back in, and the problem seems to have
disappeared. And I have my electric locks back (even if the keyless remote
doesn't work yet)!

I'll leave this disconnected for a couple weeks to make sure the problem
doesn't return. If this unit is indeed fried, I found the replacement part
for about $120 (part # H7110AS010, if anyone's interested). The dealer
wanted $250 parts and labor, and that was after I already identified the
problem, so t'shooting probably would have pushed the bill over $300.
Haynes and this newsgroup saved me $180 today. Hooray!

I'll let y'all know how it turns out in a couple weeks. I'll need to
program the transmitter on the new unit, so that may be my next post.

-Peter

 

[Todd H.]

Thanks to all the great advice! I found the keyless entry control unit,
tucked back above the fuse box and strapped on with a cable tie. It was
simple to remove, just a couple of wiring harnesses attached. It is not
the same unit that controls the electric locks -- I removed the keyless
entry control unit, popped the fuse back in, and the problem seems to have
disappeared. And I have my electric locks back (even if the keyless remote
doesn't work yet)!

I'll leave this disconnected for a couple weeks to make sure the problem
doesn't return. If this unit is indeed fried, I found the replacement part
for about $120 (part # H7110AS010, if anyone's interested). The dealer
wanted $250 parts and labor, and that was after I already identified the
problem, so t'shooting probably would have pushed the bill over $300.
Haynes and this newsgroup saved me $180 today. Hooray!

Sweet...that's cheap in comparison. !

I'll let y'all know how it turns out in a couple weeks. I'll need
to program the transmitter on the new unit, so that may be my next
post.

Typically pretty easy--you may find that there are DIP switches inside
your remote controls. Just set those to match the DIP switches on the
keyless unit, and typically you're golden.