Do I have to replace all four tires?

[yngver]

I have 2006 Subaru Forester with 14,000 miles. Last week had a flat in
a rear tire. Firestone fixed it--there were two short screws in the
tread. A few days later, I had the 15,000 mile service done at the
dealer and they rotated the tires. Now I have an almost flat tire in
the front tire on the same side. I haven't taken it back to Firestone
yet to see if they can re-patch but I think they are going to say it
can't be fixed.

Am I going to have to replace all four tires? Our alley has plenty of
junk and we can't really avoid driving through it to get to our
garage, so flats are not uncommon. I hate to think every time I get a
flat, I have to replace all the tires due to it being 4WD.
-yngver

 

[Catherine Jefferson]

I have 2006 Subaru Forester with 14,000 miles. Last week had a flat in
a rear tire. Firestone fixed it--there were two short screws in the
tread. A few days later, I had the 15,000 mile service done at the
dealer and they rotated the tires. Now I have an almost flat tire in
the front tire on the same side. I haven't taken it back to Firestone
yet to see if they can re-patch but I think they are going to say it
can't be fixed.

Am I going to have to replace all four tires? Our alley has plenty of
junk and we can't really avoid driving through it to get to our
garage, so flats are not uncommon. I hate to think every time I get a
flat, I have to replace all the tires due to it being 4WD.

A flat that can't be repaired, anyway. :/ I hate to say it, but you
probably do need to replace all four tires. I did when it turned out
that a tire on the new-to-me 1999 Forester I purchased a couple of
months ago was defective and causing the car to pull to the right. I
asked the Subaru-specialist mechanic I use (Steve Courtice at Suby
Specialities in Monrovia, California -- Los Angeles area) and he said
you should definitely replace all four tires unless the other three are
nearly new. The issue is differences in tread depth that lead to tires
having different circumferences.

Maybe some of the real Subaru/AWD nuts that hang out in this newsgroup
can explain this better than I can. Since I'm no auto expert (I just
drive them), I listen to the experts.

 

[Todd H.]

I have 2006 Subaru Forester with 14,000 miles. Last week had a flat in
a rear tire. Firestone fixed it--there were two short screws in the
tread. A few days later, I had the 15,000 mile service done at the
dealer and they rotated the tires. Now I have an almost flat tire in
the front tire on the same side. I haven't taken it back to Firestone
yet to see if they can re-patch but I think they are going to say it
can't be fixed.

FWIW, the Firestone "Mastercare" service model is: screw em hard,
screw em once, and if they don't come back, that's fine. My
independent mechanic used to work for them and finally left because of
the way they did business and he no longer wanted to be screwing folks
out of their money.

Am I going to have to replace all four tires? Our alley has plenty of
junk and we can't really avoid driving through it to get to our
garage, so flats are not uncommon. I hate to think every time I get a
flat, I have to replace all the tires due to it being 4WD.

Sadly, you either have to replace all 4 (probably the option I'd
choose at 14k, particularly since the stock tires on mine at least
were lousy), or get the new one shaved down to the diameter of your
present tires (if you can find a place that can do that and do it
accurately).

Given your parking situation, you may want to consider the road hazard
protection. Shop/compare on tirerack.com and then use that quote to
leverage a local dealer to get you a good price. I wouldn't recommend
buying from tirerack myself because your total cost of maintenance
ends up higher unless you have the discipline and patience to rotate
your own tires at the interval you're supposed to. If you can
get a local tire dealer to order what you want and match a tirerack
price, you end up ahead because of the free rotate/balance you
generally get with a local dealer when they install tires you bought
from them.

Best Regards,

 

[Dano58]

I have 2006 Subaru Forester with 14,000 miles. Last week had a flat in
a rear tire. Firestone fixed it--there were two short screws in the
tread. A few days later, I had the 15,000 mile service done at the
dealer and they rotated the tires. Now I have an almost flat tire in
the front tire on the same side. I haven't taken it back to Firestone
yet to see if they can re-patch but I think they are going to say it
can't be fixed.

Am I going to have to replace all four tires? Our alley has plenty of
junk and we can't really avoid driving through it to get to our
garage, so flats are not uncommon. I hate to think every time I get a
flat, I have to replace all the tires due to it being 4WD.
-yngver

No owners manual with the car? That would tell you for sure. On my
Audi quattro, you only have to replace tires on the same axle, or just
make sure the treadwear is within 3 - 5% (based on mileage). Not sure
why Subaru would make you replace all four. But again, read the
manual.

Dan D
(formerly) '99 Legacy L 30th (son's)
Central NJ USA

 

[Fuzzy Logic]

I have 2006 Subaru Forester with 14,000 miles. Last week had a flat in
a rear tire. Firestone fixed it--there were two short screws in the
tread. A few days later, I had the 15,000 mile service done at the
dealer and they rotated the tires. Now I have an almost flat tire in
the front tire on the same side. I haven't taken it back to Firestone
yet to see if they can re-patch but I think they are going to say it
can't be fixed.

Am I going to have to replace all four tires? Our alley has plenty of
junk and we can't really avoid driving through it to get to our
garage, so flats are not uncommon. I hate to think every time I get a
flat, I have to replace all the tires due to it being 4WD.
-yngver

All of the tires on your AWD Subaru must be within 1/4 of an inch of rolling circumference (part that touches
the road). This is because of our All Wheel Drive System.

Source <http://www.subaru.com/common/faq/tech_info.jsp#4>

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

I have 2006 Subaru Forester with 14,000 miles. Last week had a flat in
a rear tire. Firestone fixed it--there were two short screws in the
tread. A few days later, I had the 15,000 mile service done at the
dealer and they rotated the tires. Now I have an almost flat tire in
the front tire on the same side. I haven't taken it back to Firestone
yet to see if they can re-patch but I think they are going to say it
can't be fixed.

Am I going to have to replace all four tires? Our alley has plenty of
junk and we can't really avoid driving through it to get to our
garage, so flats are not uncommon. I hate to think every time I get a
flat, I have to replace all the tires due to it being 4WD.
-yngver

In theory, you could reduce the pressure in the new tire slightly (and
increase the pressure in the other 4 slightly) so its hub is precisely
the same distance from the ground as it's axle mate. But in the real
world, that could lead to poor handling.
If they are high service life tires - you're probably OK at 14K miles
difference. Put the new one on the front so it wears a little faster.
Best is to have it shaved - hard to find shops that will do it and the
money spent could also go towards buying the other 3 tires. Tough call.
Maybe your Subaru dealership knows of a shop that will shave a tire
down. IMHO they should!

This an issue with other AWD vehicles I think. Even some odd experiments
with marking the tires and driving forward in large parking lots to
measure rolling circumference, etc.

Carl

 

[isquat]

Am I going to have to replace all four tires? Our alley has plenty of
definitely

garage, so flats are not uncommon. I hate to think every time I get a
flat, I have to replace all the tires due to it being 4WD.

you have an option of trading in your subaru for a one
wheel drive car or an undiluted P.O.S. with a part time "4wd"
system like a cr-v or rav4

 

[Dano58]

This an issue with other AWD vehicles I think. Even some odd experiments
with marking the tires and driving forward in large parking lots to
measure rolling circumference, etc.

Carl - no, it's not, see my response above. I would really like
someone to read their owner's manual and post what it says.
Unfortunately, my son's car's manual is with his car in the scrapyard!

Here is some other info for reference -

http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/diffautoAWD_AWD.html

http://boards.diynetwork.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7711916776/m/1521070513

http://www.boston.com/cars/chats/archive/09_15.html

Again, we know what opinions are like, so that's why I suggested the
OP RTFM!

Dan D
(formerly) '99 Legacy L 30th (son's)
Central NJ USA

 

[yngver]

FWIW, the Firestone "Mastercare" service model is: screw em hard,
screw em once, and if they don't come back, that's fine. My
independent mechanic used to work for them and finally left because of
the way they did business and he no longer wanted to be screwing folks
out of their money.


Sadly, you either have to replace all 4 (probably the option I'd
choose at 14k, particularly since the stock tires on mine at least
were lousy), or get the new one shaved down to the diameter of your
present tires (if you can find a place that can do that and do it
accurately).

Given your parking situation, you may want to consider the road hazard
protection. Shop/compare on tirerack.com and then use that quote to
leverage a local dealer to get you a good price. I wouldn't recommend
buying from tirerack myself because your total cost of maintenance
ends up higher unless you have the discipline and patience to rotate
your own tires at the interval you're supposed to. If you can
get a local tire dealer to order what you want and match a tirerack
price, you end up ahead because of the free rotate/balance you
generally get with a local dealer when they install tires you bought
from them.

Thanks. I don't particularly like Firestone but they are two blocks
(walking distance) from my house, so when we get a flat that's where
we go because we can walk home. Now they say they can't find any
reason the tire got low again. They said they can't find a leak and
the patch is holding. I did notice the valve stem cap was gone and I
know it was there a couple days ago, so maybe someone fiddled with it
in a parking lot. That's about all I can think of. I'm just watching
it now to see if it starts to lose air again.

I asked my husband if he thinks Firestone is so incompetent they
couldn't find a leak--he's been there often enough--and he said that
although they do try to rip you off, he never found their work to be
faulty. I mean, they could have just said it can't be fixed and I need
new tires. Do you think if there is a problem, they are just too dumb
to figure out what it is? It does seem strange that if someone let the
air out of a tire, it would be the one that I just had fixed.

The tires are original, Yokohama Geolanders. Before we knew there was
nothing wrong with the tire, we called the dealer and of course they
are plenty ready to replace the tires with new Yokohama Geolanders.

My husband has a '99 Subaru Legacy and the same thing happened to him--
he had a flat after about a year. He only replaced two tires and
nothing dire happened (he now has about 130K miles on the car) but he
might have had fewer miles on it at the time. Still, it was at least
10K. He was sort of steamed about having to replace two tires, much
less all four.

When I buy new tires--and I guess from what I read, and from what it
says on Subaru.com, I'll have to replace all four--I would certainly
get road hazard protection. But the original tires didn't come with
that.
-yngver

 

[mred]

definitely

Section 11-43 of 2003 Forester's owner manual says:
For safe vehicle operation, Subaru recommends replacing all four tires
at the same time.

I just bought 4 tires at tirerack, no complaints.

I had an old 4 wd Ford Aerostar high mileage, once I did just replace
2 tires on same axle, that had a non repairable flat. Didn't notice
any difference, of course handling wasn't its strong point.
my .02

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Thanks. I don't particularly like Firestone but they are two blocks
(walking distance) from my house, so when we get a flat that's where
we go because we can walk home. Now they say they can't find any
reason the tire got low again. They said they can't find a leak and
the patch is holding. I did notice the valve stem cap was gone and I
know it was there a couple days ago, so maybe someone fiddled with it
in a parking lot. That's about all I can think of. I'm just watching
it now to see if it starts to lose air again.

I asked my husband if he thinks Firestone is so incompetent they
couldn't find a leak--he's been there often enough--and he said that
although they do try to rip you off, he never found their work to be
faulty. I mean, they could have just said it can't be fixed and I need
new tires. Do you think if there is a problem, they are just too dumb
to figure out what it is? It does seem strange that if someone let the
air out of a tire, it would be the one that I just had fixed.

The tires are original, Yokohama Geolanders. Before we knew there was
nothing wrong with the tire, we called the dealer and of course they
are plenty ready to replace the tires with new Yokohama Geolanders.

My husband has a '99 Subaru Legacy and the same thing happened to him--
he had a flat after about a year. He only replaced two tires and
nothing dire happened (he now has about 130K miles on the car) but he
might have had fewer miles on it at the time. Still, it was at least
10K. He was sort of steamed about having to replace two tires, much
less all four.

When I buy new tires--and I guess from what I read, and from what it
says on Subaru.com, I'll have to replace all four--I would certainly
get road hazard protection. But the original tires didn't come with
that.
-yngver

Um, I suppose it's possible you have a 'porous' casting that is seeping.
Not unheard of and sometimes having an alloy wheel's 'inside' (the
surface you see when no tire is mounted) sprayed with a sealant helps.
I'd like to think the shop would spot a crack or obvious defect.

dunno

Carl

 

[The Other Dave]

As an aside, My '06 Forester suffered a slit Yokohama at 4,000 miles. I
figured it was the usual poor quality OEM stuff, and found that a
replacement would have been about $130.00. Instead, I bit the bullet and
replaced all four with Toyo Z800 Plus tires and am a happy camper. Aside
from being a 100,000 mile rated tire, they are way quieter- road noise was
reduced to the level where one can carry on a conversation at highway
speeds.I would recommend them for daily drivers. I don't know how they are
for racer boy types, as I don't drive that way.

Dave

 

[yngver]

Um, I suppose it's possible you have a 'porous' casting that is seeping.
Not unheard of and sometimes having an alloy wheel's 'inside' (the
surface you see when no tire is mounted) sprayed with a sealant helps.
I'd like to think the shop would spot a crack or obvious defect.

dunno

Carl

Thanks. The pressure is down to 29 from 30 yesterday, just in that one
tire, but that could just be normal variation or my technique in using
the tire gauge that Firestone gave me, I guess. If it keeps going down
a little bit each day, that would account for it taking a week to get
low enough for the car to pull to that side, I guess. Since it was
fine before Firestone patched it and the Subaru dealer rotated it to
the front, could either of those things have caused this kind of
seeping? Firestone said they tested it in water and couldn't find any
leak. My husband wants to make them re-do the patch but I don't know
whether that will help.
-yngver

 

[number 9]

WoW...

I'm at 52,000+ on my second set of Geolander on my '03 Forester.
With good care, I normally get around 60,000 on rear wheels
drive cars. Michelin, Bridgestone, Continental, et cetera.

I'm not exceptionally slow driver, but had hunting friends at the
largest tire store in town. Balancing, pressure test and rotation
was frequent. My second set looks like the are ready for
replacement within 65,000. I have no problems with the performance
of the tires, but the milage is pretty poor, I think.

I know the issue of tires have been discussed several times, but
can anybody give me a final and agreed upon tires for all around
purpose on the Forester?

I would really appreciate it...

H.

(Words are cheap. How can we be sure? "Rebecca".)

BTW; - As of now top posting is the requirement in this
news group!!! <Snippets> are encourageds, perfect grammar
is NOT required! In the heat of discussions fingers tend to
hit the wrong key... Those of you who enjoy Paris and alcohol,
can certainly understand this!!! (I do).

REMEMBER: Think TOP POSTING!!!

 

[number 9]

You all did not listen to the new group RULES!!!
TOP POSTING IS MANDATORY!!!
Anyone violating this rule will be banned from
the Internet (formely the DOD ARPAnet ";- Advanced
Reachur

 

[bigjim]

You do not have toi replace all 4. Do the math - tires rated for 50k
miles . Start with 5/32 tread depth.14k is about 20% so that tire s
are at 4/32 tread. put a new tire on with 5/32"tread. Dont tell me
1/32" matters! Subaru cant get a head gasket right so Idoubt their
AWD is so precise 1/32" will cause damge

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

You do not have toi replace all 4. Do the math - tires rated for 50k
miles . Start with 5/32 tread depth.14k is about 20% so that tire s
are at 4/32 tread. put a new tire on with 5/32"tread. Dont tell me
1/32" matters! Subaru cant get a head gasket right so Idoubt their
AWD is so precise 1/32" will cause damge

at the risk of embarassing myself, 1/32 x 2=1/16 reduction in diameter.
x pi = 3/16+ . This is still under the 1/4" difference in circumference
that Subaru claims needs to be adhered to.

So yep, you're good.

Carl

 

[houndman]

I have 2006 Subaru Forester with 14,000 miles. Last week had a flat in
a rear tire. Firestone fixed it--there were two short screws in the
tread. A few days later, I had the 15,000 mile service done at the
dealer and they rotated the tires. Now I have an almost flat tire in
the front tire on the same side. I haven't taken it back to Firestone
yet to see if they can re-patch but I think they are going to say it
can't be fixed.

Am I going to have to replace all four tires? Our alley has plenty of
junk and we can't really avoid driving through it to get to our
garage, so flats are not uncommon. I hate to think every time I get a
flat, I have to replace all the tires due to it being 4WD.
-yngver

Only thing I have heard was, one guy went through center differentals
because he had Different sized tires on the front and rear, and the
Diff was Always working. Not sure if it makes a difference between R/L
tires. With a limited slip axel, That would be constantly working and
may wear it out. Not sure what one smaller or larger tire would do,
but I'd want to know before buying 2 or 4 tires. If you have to, that
is one thing, if not, why do it?

About tires. A few years back, Popular Mechanics said, you could fix
a Hole in a tire by having it vulcanized. The size holes were like 2"
dia in the tread, and 2 1/2" in the sidewall. I had a 1" cut in the
sidewall of a new tire, and a vulcanizer wouldn't fix it. Wanted to
sell me a tire. I bought tube patches and patched it myself. Then I
saw Sidewall Patches that were reinforced. If it is a puncture, there
are plug patches with a stem and patch attached.

Vince F

 

[peter]

All of the tires on your AWD Subaru must be within 1/4 of an inch of
rolling circumference (part that touches
the road). This is because of our All Wheel Drive System.

Source <http://www.subaru.com/common/faq/tech_info.jsp#4>

What would happen if this rule is not observed?

 

[Fuzzy Logic]

What would happen if this rule is not observed?

Exceeding this 1/4-inch difference in tire circumference can place unnecessary wear on drivetrain
components, possibly causing them to wear out prematurely.

Source <http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3433>