Crank Pulley Slipping? and why "Brake!" warning?

[counter-rotation]

Hi all, once again more quetions than answers.

Vehicle in question is a 2.2l auto Liberty Series 1 (FWD not AWD)
06/1994 model... Called a Legacy in other countries I think (I'm in
Australia).

The owner/driver (she) called the pit-crew (me) and complained of
burning rubber smell, heavy steering, and battery & brake warning
lights. I went out, thinking "broken belt" but the belts were in
good condition, tensioned right and I could not get the car to
repeat the fault. Head scratching ensued, and then I saw the crank
pulley actually moving (bolt is tight), and a spot on the cam belt
cover where it is actually melted, due to the rear-most drivebelt
rubbing on the timing cover. This seems to happen as the a/c is
turned on/off, ie tension coming on and off the a/c drive belt.
The "top" of the pulley moves in and out.
So it seems that the pulley is slipping "on itself". Is this
possible - ie is it a two-piece pulley with an internal
rubber "dampener", that could let go and cause this? Has anyone else
seen this?
Also, if I've diagnosed it correctly, this explains all the symptoms
except one - why did the "BRAKE!" warning light come on (the car
didn't stall that I'm aware of).
WRT repair... Obviously new pulley is needed. Would it be OK to fit
the slightly damaged timing cover back on the vehicle? As far as I
can see, the damage it has sustained will in no way affect it's
ability to do what it does - protect the cam belt from FOD. Can
anyone reading this think of anything else which should be checked?
(The cam belt was changed about 50K (kms) ago - I think it can wait?)

All advice greatly appreciated, as always.
Nathan, Australia.

 

[ewabom]

Hi all, once again more quetions than answers.

Vehicle in question is a 2.2l auto Liberty Series 1 (FWD not
AWD)
06/1994 model... Called a Legacy in other countries I think
(I'm in
Australia).

The owner/driver (she) called the pit-crew (me) and complained
of
burning rubber smell, heavy steering, and battery & brake
warning
lights. I went out, thinking "broken belt" but the belts were
in
good condition, tensioned right and I could not get the car to
repeat the fault. Head scratching ensued, and then I saw the
crank
pulley actually moving (bolt is tight), and a spot on the cam
belt
cover where it is actually melted, due to the rear-most
drivebelt
rubbing on the timing cover. This seems to happen as the a/c
is
turned on/off, ie tension coming on and off the a/c drive
belt.
The "top" of the pulley moves in and out.
So it seems that the pulley is slipping "on itself". Is this
possible - ie is it a two-piece pulley with an internal
rubber "dampener", that could let go and cause this? Has
anyone else
seen this?
Also, if I've diagnosed it correctly, this explains all the
symptoms
except one - why did the "BRAKE!" warning light come on (the
car
didn't stall that I'm aware of).
WRT repair... Obviously new pulley is needed. Would it be OK
to fit
the slightly damaged timing cover back on the vehicle? As far
as I
can see, the damage it has sustained will in no way affect
it's
ability to do what it does - protect the cam belt from FOD.
Can
anyone reading this think of anything else which should be
checked?
(The cam belt was changed about 50K (kms) ago - I think it can
wait?)

All advice greatly appreciated, as always.
Nathan, Australia.

havign the same problem. IN NZ,got the 2l twin cam. Did the timing
belt etc 6months ago - looks like I may have not tightened the bolt on
the main pully enough,unsure. Pully bolt is in and really difficult
to turn, but teh front pully is loose. Same thing, slack steering and
brake light - loose power steering and alternator belts. Cant
remember, bolt undoes anticlockwise(if looking at engine) doesn’t it??

 

[TG]

The pulley is a damper type and is shot, replace with a new pulley or
possibly a solid pulley if you like. TG

 

[ewabom]

Hi all, once again more quetions than answers.

Vehicle in question is a 2.2l auto Liberty Series 1 (FWD not
AWD)
06/1994 model... Called a Legacy in other countries I think
(I'm in
Australia).

The owner/driver (she) called the pit-crew (me) and complained
of
burning rubber smell, heavy steering, and battery & brake
warning
lights. I went out, thinking "broken belt" but the belts were
in
good condition, tensioned right and I could not get the car to
repeat the fault. Head scratching ensued, and then I saw the
crank
pulley actually moving (bolt is tight), and a spot on the cam
belt
cover where it is actually melted, due to the rear-most
drivebelt
rubbing on the timing cover. This seems to happen as the a/c
is
turned on/off, ie tension coming on and off the a/c drive
belt.
The "top" of the pulley moves in and out.
So it seems that the pulley is slipping "on itself". Is this
possible - ie is it a two-piece pulley with an internal
rubber "dampener", that could let go and cause this? Has
anyone else
seen this?
Also, if I've diagnosed it correctly, this explains all the
symptoms
except one - why did the "BRAKE!" warning light come on (the
car
didn't stall that I'm aware of).
WRT repair... Obviously new pulley is needed. Would it be OK
to fit
the slightly damaged timing cover back on the vehicle? As far
as I
can see, the damage it has sustained will in no way affect
it's
ability to do what it does - protect the cam belt from FOD.
Can
anyone reading this think of anything else which should be
checked?
(The cam belt was changed about 50K (kms) ago - I think it can
wait?)

All advice greatly appreciated, as always.
Nathan, Australia.

Cheers.Will do.

 

[rob c]

In message <(e-mail address removed)> - ewabom
:>
:>"counter-rotation" wrote:
:> > Hi all, once again more quetions than answers.
:> >
:> > Vehicle in question is a 2.2l auto Liberty Series 1 (FWD not
:> > AWD)
:> > 06/1994 model... Called a Legacy in other countries I think
:> > (I'm in
:> > Australia).
:> >
:> > The owner/driver (she) called the pit-crew (me) and complained
:> > of
:> > burning rubber smell, heavy steering, and battery & brake
:> > warning
:> > lights. I went out, thinking "broken belt" but the belts were
:> > in
:> > good condition, tensioned right and I could not get the car to
:> > repeat the fault. Head scratching ensued, and then I saw the
:> > crank
:> > pulley actually moving (bolt is tight), and a spot on the cam
:> > belt
:> > cover where it is actually melted, due to the rear-most
:> > drivebelt
:> > rubbing on the timing cover. This seems to happen as the a/c
:> > is
:> > turned on/off, ie tension coming on and off the a/c drive
:> > belt.
:> > The "top" of the pulley moves in and out.
:> > So it seems that the pulley is slipping "on itself". Is this
:> > possible - ie is it a two-piece pulley with an internal
:> > rubber "dampener", that could let go and cause this? Has
:> > anyone else
:> > seen this?
:> > Also, if I've diagnosed it correctly, this explains all the
:> > symptoms
:> > except one - why did the "BRAKE!" warning light come on (the
:> > car
:> > didn't stall that I'm aware of).
:> > WRT repair... Obviously new pulley is needed. Would it be OK
:> > to fit
:> > the slightly damaged timing cover back on the vehicle? As far
:> > as I
:> > can see, the damage it has sustained will in no way affect
:> > it's
:> > ability to do what it does - protect the cam belt from FOD.
:> > Can
:> > anyone reading this think of anything else which should be
:> > checked?
:> > (The cam belt was changed about 50K (kms) ago - I think it can
:> > wait?)
:> >
:> > All advice greatly appreciated, as always.
:> > Nathan, Australia.
:>
:>Cheers.Will do.
:>
:>--

Hi

I had a similar problem with my 94 Legacy (2.2 FWD) last year at 170,000km.

The front oil seal started leaking, causing the bolt to loosen and allowed the
pulley to work itself loose. I remember hearing a "clicking" type of sound at
the time and thought it was just valve noise. There was so play in the pulley
it chewed up the end of the crankshaft before the pulley broke. Very expensive
repair.

I found out later that the front oil seal is rated for 160,000km and is
supposed to be replaced whenever the timing belt is changed.


Rob

 

[ed]

Nathan
This happens on many vehicles that use a 2 piece pulley, with rubber in
between the 2 parts to take up vibrations. The brake light probably came on
because the alt wasn't charging enough, the light for the alternator and
brake are often combined, maybe to make it more visible when the alternator
stops working or if the belt breaks. If there are no holes in the belt
cover, you could re-use it, but holes will allow dirt to get in and cause
problems. Make sure the new pulley is tightened to the right torque, I've
seen 2 vehicles where the pulley nut loosened, probably by non-Subaru
mechanics changing timing belts and not tightening the bolt to spec, and the
crank end got chewed, causing a difficult repair (weld & grind, not actually
changing the crank, which would be a very expensive repair since the caes
have to be split to get the crank out, requiring the pistons to be removed
first etc, etc.).
Ed B