Cracked windshield with wiper blade heaters?

[Bruce Helms]

My '05 OBW now features a newly-cracked windshield. I'm pretty sure I heard
it "pop" right after I switched-on the wiper blade heater for just the
second time, and I was on the dealer's lot within 5 minutes before the
several checks (cracks) could propagate much. The origin seems to be right
on one of the heating element traces, at a "fork" in one check. The dealer
was quick to say "stonechip". I say "bull" !! Although that is certainly a
possibility, I don't believe it. The apparent breaksource is under the
blade! Tho' there's a chance a stone hit that spot while the blade was
moving, that's not likely. I apply "Rain-X" extensively for the express
purpose of not having to run the front wipers when I'm at road speeds. The
dealer could feel a "catch" at the breaksource and declared that is evidence
that the glass was damaged, but in fact you can catch your fingernail almost
anywhere along the several checks. I believe that's evidence of relaxed
uneven stress, which is probably a result of uneven/incomplete tempering.
(I worked for Corning Glass, and part of my responsibilities included
breaksource analysis, but what do I know?) Also - there is absolutely NO
visible evidence of bruising or crushing of the glass where the dealer
alledges the stone hit.

Has anyone heard of or experienced anything similar? I have an appointment
with the Subaru adjuster and I'd like some history to help me fight this
battle!

TIA...

 

[l.lichtman]

Bruce Helms wrote:
(clip) I have an appointment with the Subaru adjuster and I'd like some
history to help me fight this battle! (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I suggest trying to enlist the help of your insurance company. If the
dealer wins the argument, they will have a loss under your
comprehensive coverage.

 

[LB]

I am replacing windshield on my 2005 Outback next week. In my case it was a
stone for sure. It hit right about the heater element. Crack split two way -
sideways and down.
$500 including labor and glass (my deductible is $500, hence no insurance
claim here).

The glass guy said the new glass is more brittle compare to the old once ( I
guess due to UV curing)

 

[F. Plant]

My '05 OBW now features a newly-cracked windshield. I'm pretty sure I heard
it "pop" right after I switched-on the wiper blade heater for just the
second time, and I was on the dealer's lot within 5 minutes before the
several checks (cracks) could propagate much. The origin seems to be right
on one of the heating element traces, at a "fork" in one check. The dealer
was quick to say "stonechip". I say "bull" !! Although that is certainly a
possibility, I don't believe it. The apparent breaksource is under the
blade! Tho' there's a chance a stone hit that spot while the blade was
moving, that's not likely. I apply "Rain-X" extensively for the express
purpose of not having to run the front wipers when I'm at road speeds. The
dealer could feel a "catch" at the breaksource and declared that is evidence
that the glass was damaged, but in fact you can catch your fingernail almost
anywhere along the several checks. I believe that's evidence of relaxed
uneven stress, which is probably a result of uneven/incomplete tempering.
(I worked for Corning Glass, and part of my responsibilities included
breaksource analysis, but what do I know?) Also - there is absolutely NO
visible evidence of bruising or crushing of the glass where the dealer
alledges the stone hit.

Has anyone heard of or experienced anything similar? I have an appointment
with the Subaru adjuster and I'd like some history to help me fight this
battle!

No experience, but I would suggest using a mini microscope or a loupe and
checking the crack for impact (I know you said there is none, but just in
case...). If there is no impact mark at all, then they are basically
trying to defraud the insurance company IMO.

Good luck,

F.Plant

 

[Rick Courtright]

on one of the heating element traces, at a "fork" in one check. The dealer
was quick to say "stonechip". I say "bull" !! Although that is certainly a

Hi,

I won't pretend to know what broke YOUR windshield, but I've had
personal experiences where stone chips almost too tiny to see caused
cracks. Standard drill seems to be get hit by a rock (doesn't have to be
much of an impact sound-wise), not see anything, think I'm lucky, then
when the windshield starts to warm up in the morning (sun,
heater/defroster, whatever) a day or two later, mysteriously a crack
appears. Currently I have one that almost requires a magnifying glass to
see the actual impact "divot" in the glass, which is about 1/2" in from
the edge.

Who knows what happened to yours? Since you work in this field, is
thermal stress alone (without a physical "starting" point like a glass
cutter would make) actually capable of breaking a windshield? We've all
heard the cold water on hot glass or hot water on cold glass breakage
stories, so maybe it is? I don't know.

Rick

 

[Mike]

I can say that I had a bad week for auto glass last week.... a neighborhood
kid rode his bike into my WRX and messed it up to the tune of about $600 in
paint and fender repair... on the way to the shop I got a rock chip. On the
way home from the shop I got another rock, about the size of a cigarette
lighter, that put a huge starburst in the damned center of the windshield.
The first one wasn't big enough to seal, the second was. On the way home
from the glass shop I got another rock and chip! ...and no I don't live on
an unpaved road or near a construction zone! Least of all, I never caught
the kid that damaged my car so I get to pay for that out of pocket too!

Either I really did something bad last week or I should stop believing in
Karma!

 

[Ed P]

No experience, but I would suggest using a mini microscope or a loupe and
checking the crack for impact (I know you said there is none, but just in
case...). If there is no impact mark at all, then they are basically
trying to defraud the insurance company IMO.

Good luck,

F.Plant

Years ago when I worked at a Chevrolet dealer, cracks were evaluated for
warranty by running the tip of a pencil or fine ball point pen along the
crack. The tip would "catch" in the pit of a stone impact. Stress
cracks would not cause the tip to catch.

Ed P

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

4 8 15 16 23 42

I can say that I had a bad week for auto glass last week.... a neighborhood
kid rode his bike into my WRX and messed it up to the tune of about $600 in
paint and fender repair... on the way to the shop I got a rock chip. On the
way home from the shop I got another rock, about the size of a cigarette
lighter, that put a huge starburst in the damned center of the windshield.
The first one wasn't big enough to seal, the second was. On the way home
from the glass shop I got another rock and chip! ...and no I don't live on
an unpaved road or near a construction zone! Least of all, I never caught
the kid that damaged my car so I get to pay for that out of pocket too!

Either I really did something bad last week or I should stop believing in
Karma!

 

[John O]

(I worked for Corning Glass, and part of my responsibilities included

breaksource analysis, but what do I know?)

Sounds like you know a lot more than the average dealer service guy on this
subject. Do that extra-close physical inspection and run with your results.

-John O

 

[Florian Feuser /FFF/]

Bruce Helms wrote:
(clip) I have an appointment with the Subaru adjuster
and I'd like some history to help me fight this battle! (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I suggest trying to enlist the help of your insurance company.
If the dealer wins the argument, they will have a loss under your
comprehensive coverage.

Don't forget: It also costs the insurance money to fight this out, so they will
probably write it off and the dealer "wins".

Of course, it is not the insurance company but everyone who insures through them
who are going to absorb the cost in the long run.

In addition, they will pay for your windshield to be "repaired" if the crack
isn't too big.

Don't give up talking to the dealer just yet.

Florian /FFF/

 

[D YOUNG]

I had a similar experience in March 2004. I have a 2002 Forester S, at that
time it had about 18000 miles on the odometer. It was an icy morning and the
wipers had been stuck down and I had the wipers heater on. A crack suddenly
spread almost the full width of the windshield, varying between 2 and 3
inches above the bottom - I was driving in town in traffic- no dump trucks
or other source of flying stones in sight.

Went straight to the dealer- was afraid the windshield might break up into
two pieces while driving.

The service mgr at first claimed damage from a stone but could not find an
impact site. I claimed improper original installation such that the
windshield had excessive residual stress which eventually relieved itself by
cracking.

The service mgr agreed to talk to the Subaru technical rep, which he did
immediately by phone and came back with authorisation for a no charge
replacement. Later I found that the replacement windshield differed from the
original in that it did not have a heating element. Go figure. Maybe the
thermal gradient through the glass was too great? maybe residual stress due
to bending during installation? or some combination? anyway it did not seem
to be a big surprise to the Subaru rep.

Hope this helps you or anyone else in a similar situation.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Helms" <(e-mail address removed)>
Newsgroups: alt.autos.subaru
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 9:27 PM
Subject: Cracked windshield with wiper blade heaters?

My '05 OBW now features a newly-cracked windshield. I'm pretty sure I
heard
it "pop" right after I switched-on the wiper blade heater for just the
second time, and I was on the dealer's lot within 5 minutes before the
several checks (cracks) could propagate much. The origin seems to be
right
on one of the heating element traces, at a "fork" in one check.
.................

 

[jabario]

Later I found that the replacement windshield differed from the
original in that it did not have a heating element. Go figure. Maybe
the
thermal gradient through the glass was too great?<<

I'd be quite pissed. If you paid for the windshield heater you no
longer have one. Why don't rear windows crack more ofter? Defrosters
are run more often and for longer times. In two winters I've used the
w/s heater on my 04 Outback maybe 3 times. the rear one much more
often. If subaru can't procure quality windshields I'd be scared of
the awd systems. A windshield cost $100 with comprehensive- awd could
cost $$$$$$$$$$

 

[Michael Tissington]

Very strange - I've just had the exact same problem.

 

[Cam]

original in that it did not have a heating element. Go figure. Maybe
the
thermal gradient through the glass was too great?<<

I'd be quite pissed. If you paid for the windshield heater you no
longer have one. Why don't rear windows crack more ofter? Defrosters
are run more often and for longer times. In two winters I've used the
w/s heater on my 04 Outback maybe 3 times. the rear one much more
often. If subaru can't procure quality windshields I'd be scared of
the awd systems.

How is a failed winshield related to AWD ? ?

 

[jabario]

If subaru can't obtain quality glass how I'm concerned of the quality
of their other components.

 

[CompUser]

How is a failed winshield related to AWD ? ?

Maybe something along the lines of "Gee, if they
did one thing wrong, then they can't do anything,
right!"??

 

[John O]

If subaru can't obtain quality glass how I'm concerned of the quality

of their other components.

Yeah, the radio is pretty cheesy too, so I guess the whole car is a POS.

It's a good thing NASA never used that rationale. They'd still be trying to
get a Redstone to fly.

-John O

 

[jabario]

The radio is a non critical component. Although the new integrated ones
will keep me from buying a another subaru in the future if it
continues. No one expects a stock radio to be great but we expect
glass to last and be manufactured sans defects. The problem is
probably poor torsional structural stability. I replaced a fewe
windshields on my 94 Trooper. Once a crack started it always spread due
to dframes twisting. My 04 OBW has a stone chip I fixed with an auto
parts store kit. Hasnt spread in almost a year. If it does, I'll
replace it . A lexan deflector keeps some stones from the w/s.

 

[John O]

The radio is a non critical component.

Maybe to you.

Supposing this is not rock damage, it's either a design defect in the glass,
frame or heater, a manufacturing defect in either of the three, or an
assembly defect. Considering the distance between the engineers (figurative
and maybe literal) who design body and drivetrain (Japan?), and the
glassmaker (Japan?) and the assembly line (Indiana), making a connection
between the windshield and drivetrain is a major stretch. IMO it's an
illogical stretch.

A lexan deflector keeps some stones from the w/s.

My OBW has a deflector, is that what it does? I really don't know why it is
there, other than to protect the paint directly under the deflector,
although where it touches the paint has rubbed off.

-John O

 

[Rick Courtright]

If subaru can't obtain quality glass how I'm concerned of the quality
of their other components.

Hi,

You ought to commute on a couple of the freeways we use most in SoCal
that also handle most of the gravel hauling business in the area! NOBODY
has "quality" glass if you judge by the broken windshields I see on all
makes... my '92 Toyota's due for its fourth windshield in 225k miles, my
'90 Subie only its third in 357k miles--but then if I replaced them WHEN
they broke instead of driving around with cracks and pits for a few
years each time, those numbers would easily be doubled or tripled. I
wouldn't judge the quality of a car by a broken windshield...

Rick