Catalytic Converter replacement

S

Scott Hughes

Just in case anyone else out there w/ <80k miles has seen a PO420 CEL
code..

I was getting that code and found by luck that the converter is warrantied
for 8yr/80k miles (may only be USA ? ). Anyway, for the $52 that they
charge for the screening (yeah, pretty much the same thing AutoZone does
for free.. hook it to an OBDII scanner), I got a new cat which the invoice
showed was about $950 for the part plus about $200 for labor.

I had about 77k miles on my car when I started seeing the CEL and heard
about the warranty. By the time they could verify the problem and get the
new cat ordered & installed I dropped the car off w/ 79,850 miles on it :)

$52 isn't too bad for a job that would have been over a grand just a few k
miles later..

-Scott
 
Scott said:
Just in case anyone else out there w/ <80k miles has seen a PO420 CEL
code..

I was getting that code and found by luck that the converter is warrantied
for 8yr/80k miles (may only be USA ? ). Anyway, for the $52 that they
charge for the screening (yeah, pretty much the same thing AutoZone does
for free.. hook it to an OBDII scanner), I got a new cat which the invoice
showed was about $950 for the part plus about $200 for labor.

I had about 77k miles on my car when I started seeing the CEL and heard
about the warranty. By the time they could verify the problem and get the
new cat ordered & installed I dropped the car off w/ 79,850 miles on it :)

$52 isn't too bad for a job that would have been over a grand just a few k
miles later..

-Scott

Scott,

Unless there were non-warranty CEL problems, they shouldn't have charged
you anything for the warranty catalytic converter repair. You should
complain to the Service Director -- not Service Mgr/writer and to Subaru.

Ed P
 
Yep; they got 52 dollars coffee money out of your pocket that they
should not have.
 
Subaru's with 50,000 miles or more often throw this code. The problem is
almost always not the converter but a leaky exhaust gasket messing up the
readings between the two 02 sensors. The way a used up cat WOULD be detected
is the difference between 02 sensor readings is out of spec but at 80,000
miles the more likely culprit is the gasket...I have cleaned up this code
MANY times this way. Of course when they replaced the cat you got new
gaskets. Tracy
 
Scott said:
Just in case anyone else out there w/ <80k miles has seen a PO420 CEL
code..

I was getting that code and found by luck that the converter is warrantied
for 8yr/80k miles (may only be USA ? ). Anyway, for the $52 that they
charge for the screening (yeah, pretty much the same thing AutoZone does
for free.. hook it to an OBDII scanner), I got a new cat which the invoice
showed was about $950 for the part plus about $200 for labor.

I had about 77k miles on my car when I started seeing the CEL and heard
about the warranty. By the time they could verify the problem and get the
new cat ordered & installed I dropped the car off w/ 79,850 miles on it :)

$52 isn't too bad for a job that would have been over a grand just a few k
miles later..

-Scott
IMO the prices are way out of line. I'm at 130k miles and in need of
a replacement converter. Third party replacements that are a drop-in
replacement are in the $300 range and since these are bolted in, labor
shouldn't be more than an hr even considering the need to swap out the
O2 sensor.

There ain't no way no how I'd pay more than $1k for that repair.

Mickey
 
Just had the same code on my 1995 Legacy.....and, the dealer stated that the
only drawback from not replacing it is a possible loss in gas mileage (car
has 135K). Other than the C/C code....the car runs perfectly. I'm not
spending 300-500 bucks on a car with 130K on it---when the rest of the car
is in perfect shape.

John
 
Just had the same code on my 1995 Legacy.....and, the dealer stated that the
only drawback from not replacing it is a possible loss in gas mileage (car
has 135K). Other than the C/C code....the car runs perfectly. I'm not
spending 300-500 bucks on a car with 130K on it---when the rest of the car
is in perfect shape.

John
If you like the car and it has been well maintained,etc. That's only 1-2
monthly payments if you were paying on a loan! And your Sube could
easily go another 130K.

Carl
 
Just had the same code on my 1995 Legacy.....and, the dealer stated that the
only drawback from not replacing it is a possible loss in gas mileage (car
has 135K). Other than the C/C code....the car runs perfectly. I'm not
spending 300-500 bucks on a car with 130K on it---when the rest of the car
is in perfect shape.

The drawback to this strategy is that right now,
you know what the CEL is for. Tomorrow, next
week, next month...will it still be for the O2
sensor---or something else?

Anyone know how well Subies accept "generic"
O2 sensors?
 
CompUser said:
Anyone know how well Subies accept "generic"
O2 sensors?

Hi,

Can't speak for the newer models, but the older ones seem to do all
right with "generic." I think Bosch and Hitachi make most of 'em
worldwide, anyway, so there's a fair chance you'll get the same sensor
with maybe a different connector, for a much lower price.

Good luck if you're gonna be changing one soon!

Rick
 
Scott,

Unless there were non-warranty CEL problems, they shouldn't have
charged you anything for the warranty catalytic converter repair. You
should complain to the Service Director -- not Service Mgr/writer and
to Subaru.

Ed P

Well, in light of the cost of the cat replacement, the $52 was easy to
stomach, even if it was bogus. But their explanation was that they have
to do the test first and if it's not conclusive that the cat is at fault,
then I have to pay for the test.

When I first brought the car in and they tested it, they said that a
loose airbox could be responsible for that code. This particular aspect
certainly seemed suspect. He showed me that you could shake the airbox a
bit and had one of the service guys take care of it. When I got the car
home I popped the hood and was able to shake the airbox just as much as
he had before the guy "fixed" it..

-Scott
 
Scott said:
Well, in light of the cost of the cat replacement, the $52 was easy to
stomach, even if it was bogus. But their explanation was that they have
to do the test first and if it's not conclusive that the cat is at fault,
then I have to pay for the test.

When I first brought the car in and they tested it, they said that a
loose airbox could be responsible for that code. This particular aspect
certainly seemed suspect. He showed me that you could shake the airbox a
bit and had one of the service guys take care of it. When I got the car
home I popped the hood and was able to shake the airbox just as much as
he had before the guy "fixed" it..

-Scott

Scott,

I speak from the experience of a former Chevrolet dealer mechanic, shop
forman, service writer, and customer relations manager.

When a vehicle is beyond the bumper-to-bumper warranty but within the
emission warranty, there is certainly the possibility that complete
repair may involve both warranty and non-warranty items. And it is
reasonable for a garage to require customer authorization for check out
time until diagnosis reveals what the situation is. However, if the
*only* repairs needed are warranty, then there should be no additional
check out charge to the customer. Now the reality is that in real-life
situations whether you are charged depends on the integrity of the
mechanic and the shop. Obviously, an experienced mechanic can make up
BS to cover wanting to charge checkout. As the customer, you have to
decide whether the shop is treating you right.

Bear in mind that diagnosing Check Engine Light problems is based on
following step-by-step procedures that mechanics often short-cut. For
example, the short cut is to pull the computer code and go right to
replacing the related component. But, as an example, a leaking vacuum
hose will affect the fuel mixture that the oxygen sensor sees. The
sensor might prove to be fine once the vacuum leak is fixed. If an
inferior mechanic replaced the Oxygen sensor only to find out afterwards
that it was a vacuum leak, do you think he is going to put the original
oxygen sensor back and only charge for the vacuum leak repair?

The first diagnostic step (or second after checking for codes) should
generally be to look at things under the hood and an assess the overall
engine management system. One then proceeds to diagnostic procedures
specific to the trouble codes that were found. Followed after the
repair, with a final check that everything is working properly.

I don't know how Subaru dealers do it, but we used to make the warranty
determination based in part on the labor codes involved. Back in the
80s when I was active, emission component labor codes all began with the
letter E. The warranty classification for certain repairs where
determined by whether the car had failed an state emission test.

Ed P
 
Ed P writes :
If an
inferior mechanic replaced the Oxygen sensor only to find out afterwards
that it was a vacuum leak, do you think he is going to put the original
oxygen sensor back and only charge for the vacuum leak repair?

This is a frightening statement of reality. When I was a mechanic, I
remember the other (grass roots type) mechanic replacing electrical
parts until the problem went away. The job was then done. When I
mentioned to him once that he had replaced a lot of unnecessary parts
it was like I was speaking some other language.

I've often felt bad thinking about all the poor innocent souls
paying exhorbitant repair bills.
 
Paul said:
Ed P writes :



This is a frightening statement of reality. When I was a mechanic, I
remember the other (grass roots type) mechanic replacing electrical
parts until the problem went away. The job was then done. When I
mentioned to him once that he had replaced a lot of unnecessary parts
it was like I was speaking some other language.

I've often felt bad thinking about all the poor innocent souls
paying exhorbitant repair bills.
I had a EGR system check engine light and diagnosed it as far as I could
and then took it to the dealer. The dealer replaced the valve and
control soleniod to the tune of about $400; in other words, just about
every thing but the computer. When I later got a check engine light and
code for the knock sensor, I replaced the knock sensor hoping that would
take care of it -- it did :).

My '96 Outback now at 99k miles has been a good car except for what I
believe is a rear main engine oil seal leak. But I can't get over the
price of the parts compared to my old Chevies. For example, I had a '84
Celebrity that needed an EGR valve and I found the valve - Delco no less
- at a local parts store for $20.

Ed P
 

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