can you believe this?

[lumpy]

I drive my '99 legacy outback, bought new, from pennsylvania to florida and back quite often. Until now the car has been totally reliable. Even the tires have lasted 98,000 miles and only replaced because of rot with age.

Anyhow, about 4,000 miles ago I noticed a smell of burning oil which my local mechanic ("technician") attributed to leaking cam seals and charged me a huge amount of money to replace three of them, along with the timing belt. A few thousand miles later I smelled it again and he told me it was the crank seal and he fixed it. About 60 miles later the engine quit at 60 mpg. I had it towed to the mechanic who told me that the tensioner bearings blew and that the belt, tensioner, and housing would have to be replaced. Also, the engine was damaged (still checking out the extent of the damage) by the engine turning over after the timing belt had bad broken.

My question is: what, if anything, did he do wrong? The mechaqnic claims that, in each case, the problems were unrelated. Highly suspicious.

If there is any expert here who can come up with a reasonable explanation I would like to know. The car is probably next to useless now. Perhaps, being a general mechanic, he overlooked something in the procedures which caused the problem though he vehemently denies any wrong doing.


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[Jim Stewart]

I drive my '99 legacy outback, bought new, from pennsylvania to florida and back quite often. Until now the car has been totally reliable. Even the tires have lasted 98,000 miles and only replaced because of rot with age.

Anyhow, about 4,000 miles ago I noticed a smell of burning oil which my local mechanic ("technician") attributed to leaking cam seals and charged me a huge amount of money to replace three of them, along with the timing belt. A few thousand miles later I smelled it again and he told me it was the crank seal and he fixed it. About 60 miles later the engine quit at 60 mpg. I had it towed to the mechanic who told me that the tensioner bearings blew and that the belt, tensioner, and housing would have to be replaced. Also, the engine was damaged (still checking out the extent of the damage) by the engine turning over after the timing belt had bad broken.

My question is: what, if anything, did he do wrong? The mechaqnic claims that, in each case, the problems were unrelated. Highly suspicious.

The first time he worked on your car, he should have
recommended changing the cam belt, the water pump,
the tensioner, *all* the oil seals, and loctiting
the oil pump screws. That would have been the last
repair for a long time and would have added another
$300-$400 to the bill.

Now if he was not experienced with Subaru quirks, or
you told him to just fix what was broke, he can be
excused. OTH, if you had visited this newsgroup back
then, you would have been advised to ask him to do all
of the above.

I can't see how you can blame him for not fixing what
wasn't broke.

 

[Danny Russell]

I drive my '99 legacy outback, bought new, from pennsylvania to florida and back quite often. Until now the car has been totally reliable. Even the tires have lasted 98,000 miles and only replaced because of rot with age.

Anyhow, about 4,000 miles ago I noticed a smell of burning oil which my local mechanic ("technician") attributed to leaking cam seals and charged me a huge amount of money to replace three of them, along with the timing belt. A few thousand miles later I smelled it again and he told me it was the crank seal and he fixed it. About 60 miles later the engine quit at 60 mpg. I had it towed to the mechanic who told me that the tensioner bearings blew and that the belt, tensioner, and housing would have to be replaced. Also, the engine was damaged (still checking out the extent of the damage) by the engine turning over after the timing belt had bad broken.

My question is: what, if anything, did he do wrong? The mechaqnic claims that, in each case, the problems were unrelated. Highly suspicious.

If there is any expert here who can come up with a reasonable explanation I would like to know. The car is probably next to useless now. Perhaps, being a general mechanic, he overlooked something in the procedures which caused the problem though he vehemently denies any wrong doing.

I concur with Jim. It's somewhat cusmtomary to do a sort-of an entire "front-end" service on the
engine. On my '00 2.2 Impreza I pulled the radiator out and replaced:

Timing belt
Alternator belt
Power Steering belt
Cam seals
Crank seal
Tensioner assembly
All idlers
Water Pump
Oil pump O-ring
Upper & Lower radiator hoses/clamps
Thermostat

The biggest obstacle I encountered was the dealer (where I bought the parts) cajoling me for
replacing "all that stuff I didn't need to" as they put it.

 

[Edward Hayes]

Danny: I read your comments very carefully and came to these
conclusions. 1. All front end seals should have been replaced at the
same time since your into the front end anyway. The belt tensioner
doesn't have a bearing so I don't understand the statement. I do know
that it is VERY important to compress the tensioner VERY slowly in the
vertical direction and with a max force of ??? pounds. Failing to do
these steps results in the tensioner failing and the attending belt
failure. There is also the question of a failed waterpump bearing that
will take out the timing belt. You do have an interference engine as
ALL 2.5L engines are interference so expect a replacement engine or
major rebuild with be the conclusion. So sorry to hears your problems
.. Ed

 

[Rick Courtright]

same time since your into the front end anyway. The belt tensioner
doesn't have a bearing so I don't understand the statement. I do know

Ed,

I'm not familiar w/ the 2.5l tensioner, but earlier models did have a
bearing that can go bad (noticed mine were quite rough at last belt
change, so swapped 'em out before something broke) and I could see a
belt being taken out had one frozen up. How does the 2.5 unit work?

To the OP: sounds like your mechanic either wasn't that familiar w/
Subies, or was of the "it ain't broke, don't fix it" school. As Jim and
Danny posted, it's a good idea to go thru all the seals, etc., with each
belt change. My experience is they'll last longer than one change
interval, but will often fail before a second interval is reached, so
chalk it up as preventive maintenance. AND, since the labor's really
almost the same whether you just do the belts or add the seals, etc.,
it's cost effective to pay for a few "unneeded" parts each time. Far
cheaper than whatever it will cost to get your engine back in shape!

Good luck!

Rick

 

[Danny Russell]

Danny: I read your comments very carefully and came to these
conclusions. 1. All front end seals should have been replaced at the
same time since your into the front end anyway. The belt tensioner
doesn't have a bearing so I don't understand the statement. I do know
that it is VERY important to compress the tensioner VERY slowly in the
vertical direction and with a max force of ??? pounds. Failing to do
these steps results in the tensioner failing and the attending belt
failure.

Ed, on my motor there's 3 idlers plus the tensioner. Each one rotates on a needle/roller bearing
assembly, no?

I've read stories of them having a tendency to fail about halfway to the next service interval if
they're replaced at each interval. -Danny

 

[Edward Hayes]

I can see the idler that is attached to the same mount as the
tensioner mounting bracket. but, to change the timing belt the manual
states that the tensioner must be removed and compressed using the
earlier methods i.e. min/max force/vertical etc.

 

[Darren Dempsey]

Ok I would suggest you find a better Mechanic as the one you use certainly
isn't that good full stop it does not matter if you know Subaru's or not,If
you get that far into a Cars front end you would replace all that it looks
like will give problems,in paticular on Subaru's it would be,Water pump,cams
and main seal,cam belt,cam tensioner(this should be done when changing the
cambelt anyway)..
Also the Modern Subaru engine is a non interference engine meaning that the
pistons will not hit the valves when the cambely breaks,BUT saying this on a
quad cam engine the valves can hit and bend

DJ
Diesel Technician
and Subaru owner
I have these Subarus
'88 Leone RX Turbo Coupe
90 Legacy GT 5 Speed Turbo
90 Legacy GT Auto Turbo
93 SVX

I drive my '99 legacy outback, bought new, from pennsylvania to florida

and back quite often. Until now the car has been totally reliable. Even the
tires have lasted 98,000 miles and only replaced because of rot with age.

Anyhow, about 4,000 miles ago I noticed a smell of burning oil which my

local mechanic ("technician") attributed to leaking cam seals and charged me
a huge amount of money to replace three of them, along with the timing belt.
A few thousand miles later I smelled it again and he told me it was the
crank seal and he fixed it. About 60 miles later the engine quit at 60 mpg.
I had it towed to the mechanic who told me that the tensioner bearings blew
and that the belt, tensioner, and housing would have to be replaced. Also,
the engine was damaged (still checking out the extent of the damage) by the
engine turning over after the timing belt had bad broken.

My question is: what, if anything, did he do wrong? The mechaqnic claims

that, in each case, the problems were unrelated. Highly suspicious.

If there is any expert here who can come up with a reasonable explanation

I would like to know. The car is probably next to useless now. Perhaps,
being a general mechanic, he overlooked something in the procedures which
caused the problem though he vehemently denies any wrong doing.

 

[Edward Hayes]

The " modern" Subaru 2.5L engine IS an interference engine(SOHC &
DOHC) and if the timing belt breaks it WILL damage the engine big
time.