can a 5 speed manual be converted to an automatic?

[Rogue Petunia]

Hello,
Can a 5 speed manual (Subaru AWD Outback) be converted to an automatic?

Please, before everyone says that is a stupid idea, hear me out. I got the
car as a gift from a relative. It's a 2001 Outback, so it was quite a deal.
The car is in perfect condition, inside and out. Only 40K miles.

It's a 5 speed manual. For more than 16 years I drove a standard. The last
4 years I had an automatic. I didn't think twice about accepting the 5
speed manual because I had driven standards for most of my life.

However, I have a herniated disc and have had recurring back pain for the
last year. I had no idea using the clutch (in city traffic mind you) would
exacerbate my lower back pain.

So this is why I am wondering about the conversion - receiving the car was a
windfall, but it's causing me pain to drive it. And, you know how family
politics are - I just don't think it'll go over very well if I sell it
seeing as it was a gift.

Thanks,
Rogue Petunia

 

[ceraboy]

Hello,
Can a 5 speed manual (Subaru AWD Outback) be converted to an
automatic?

Please, before everyone says that is a stupid idea, hear me out. I
got the car as a gift from a relative. It's a 2001 Outback, so it
was quite a deal. The car is in perfect condition, inside and out.
Only 40K miles.

It's a 5 speed manual. For more than 16 years I drove a standard.
The last 4 years I had an automatic. I didn't think twice about
accepting the 5 speed manual because I had driven standards for most
of my life.

However, I have a herniated disc and have had recurring back pain for
the last year. I had no idea using the clutch (in city traffic mind
you) would exacerbate my lower back pain.

So this is why I am wondering about the conversion - receiving the
car was a windfall, but it's causing me pain to drive it. And, you
know how family politics are - I just don't think it'll go over very
well if I sell it seeing as it was a gift.

Thanks,
Rogue Petunia

Sell the manual and then buy a AT if that is what you need. A
conversion is not practicle since the drivetrain and a host of interior
controls are built around the transmission. This would be more trouble
and costly than selling and buying, then you could spend the money you
saved on physical therapy.

 

[Rogue Petunia]

Sell the manual and then buy a AT if that is what you need. A
conversion is not practicle since the drivetrain and a host of interior
controls are built around the transmission. This would be more trouble
and costly than selling and buying, then you could spend the money you
saved on physical therapy.

Thanks for your response to the car question (ie, explaining about the
drivetrain and interior controls), but no thanks for assuming I had not
sought treatment for my back pain and that YOU needed to tell me about it.
I have done physical therapy, exercise, acupunture, massage therapy, and
chiropractic.

Just looking for technical automative answers here, not medical.

 

[John]

Thanks for your response to the car question (ie, explaining about the
drivetrain and interior controls), but no thanks for assuming I had not
sought treatment for my back pain and that YOU needed to tell me about it.
I have done physical therapy, exercise, acupunture, massage therapy, and
chiropractic.

Just looking for technical automative answers here, not medical.

Careful, ceraboy did give you the automotive answer. To summaraize:

Can it be done? Yes, if you have the $$$, sorry that should be a four digit
$$$$
Is it practical? No, but it looks by your previous response only you can
answer that. Since you got the car as a gift, the money you put into the
conversion can be recouped if you decide to sell. Personally, I would sell
or trade for and auto, it's not worth the time or agrevation.

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

Hello,
Can a 5 speed manual (Subaru AWD Outback) be converted to an automatic?

Theoretically, sure. As the old hot rodder's adage goes, "Anything'll fit
anything -- how much welding rod and money have ya got?"

Practically, no. This would be an *enormous*, extensive and hugely
expensive job, and the result would be...less than perfect.

Really, the only practical way to have an automatic transmission in your
car is to have a different car.

DS

 

[Ray]

Just looking for technical automative answers here, not medical.

Like everyone else said:
It can be done. Unfortunately it's not going to be cheap. Unless
you're a mechanic (or a backyard mechanic) you're probably looking at
$4000 and up.

used automatic: $1000
computer from an automatic Subaru: $1000
labour to remove manual: $500
labour to install automatic: $500
misc brackets, wiring, pieces to convert shifter and console: $1000
*call your dealer and ask for the price for a new console for your
automatic*

this is assuming you don't have a situation where the auto/manual use
different floorpans, different axles, different transfer cases (it's a
subaru so it's 4wd), different exhausts, etc etc etc...

Lastly, probably the only place that would take something like this on
(and not butcher the car in the first place) would be a hot rod shop and
they're not going to be cheap and this isn't a one day project.

My $.02 -> keep looking in the autotrader for a Subaru in the same color
that's an auto and buy it. Or trade it in on an auto and get it
repainted the same color to avoid the politics...

The reality is engine/tranny swaps that aren't "easy" or common are
expensive.
(by easy I mean swapping from the same engine family - same size
externally, different internally. 305 Chevy to a 350 Chevy. That kind
of stuff.)

 

[y_p_w]

Thanks for your response to the car question (ie, explaining about the
drivetrain and interior controls), but no thanks for assuming I had not
sought treatment for my back pain and that YOU needed to tell me about it.
I have done physical therapy, exercise, acupunture, massage therapy, and
chiropractic.

Just looking for technical automative answers here, not medical.

Perhaps I'm seeing it from a different perspective, but that
"spend the money on physical therapy" line seemed to more a joke
than an actual suggestion. I interpreted it more as, "Your money
would be better spent elsewhere", which be my opinion.

A conversion would likely be an expensive exercise leading to an
imperfect result. You're going to have a hard time finding anyone
competent or willing to do the job. It would probably be cheaper
and easier to replace the engine. There's just so much stuff in
there built around whether it's manual/auto.

 

[Christopher Green]

Theoretically, sure. As the old hot rodder's adage goes, "Anything'll fit
anything -- how much welding rod and money have ya got?"

Practically, no. This would be an *enormous*, extensive and hugely
expensive job, and the result would be...less than perfect.

Really, the only practical way to have an automatic transmission in your
car is to have a different car.

DS

On some models, it isn't a total impossibility. For example, there is
something of a market in Saab 900 conversions (but that's the other
direction, from 3-speed auto to 5-speed manual, because Saab
automatics are Gawdawful).

Even where it's possible, it's a four-figure job, and the cost won't
be recouped in value added to the car.

 

[Subbies Two]

x-no-archive: yes

Hello,
Can a 5 speed manual (Subaru AWD Outback) be converted to an automatic?

Please, before everyone says that is a stupid idea, hear me out. I got the
car as a gift from a relative. It's a 2001 Outback, so it was quite a deal.
The car is in perfect condition, inside and out. Only 40K miles.

It's a 5 speed manual. For more than 16 years I drove a standard. The last
4 years I had an automatic. I didn't think twice about accepting the 5
speed manual because I had driven standards for most of my life.

However, I have a herniated disc and have had recurring back pain for the
last year. I had no idea using the clutch (in city traffic mind you) would
exacerbate my lower back pain.

So this is why I am wondering about the conversion - receiving the car was a
windfall, but it's causing me pain to drive it. And, you know how family
politics are - I just don't think it'll go over very well if I sell it
seeing as it was a gift.

Thanks,
Rogue Petunia

Save yourself a LOT of time, money and aggravation and sell or trade
this car for a automatic vehicle. In this vehicle, it isn't just a
simple matter of swapping out transmissions.

This would be extremely expensive and complicated conversion, and in the
end, the car would be worth less than it is today. Because of the
complexity of the conversion, I would also be concerned that the overall
reliability of the vehicle would be compromised, especially if a used
automatic transmission was utilized.

 

[ceraboy]

Thanks for your response to the car question (ie, explaining about the
drivetrain and interior controls), but no thanks for assuming I had
not sought treatment for my back pain and that YOU needed to tell me
about it. I have done physical therapy, exercise, acupunture,
massage therapy, and chiropractic.

Just looking for technical automative answers here, not medical.

Rogue

I did not mean to imply that you are not seeking appropriate care for
your condition. It was my lighthearted way of saying the conversion
will cost you money that could be used elsewhere and my opinion that a
conversion is not worth it. I think as you have seen from the general
consensus here that this is not an easy, practicle, or cost effective
means of acquiring that automatic transmission. I am sure you family
will understand your selling the car and acquiring one that is similar.

Indeed conversions were a practicle possibility in american cars years
ago, but given how tight the space is under the hood of these modern
cars and the significant differences in the manual vs AT Subaru AWD
drive systems there is a strong possibility that beyond the parts to
convert; many components, electrical, accesories, and cooling lines may
need to be rerouted as well. Also, I am not sure if the rear drive
differential gear ratio is the same on the manuals and auto either
which would add even more cost. Good luck in your decision,

 

[NitroTrike]

Subject: Re: can a 5 speed manual be converted to an automatic?

From: Christopher Green (e-mail address removed)
Date: 8/28/2004 3:00 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <(e-mail address removed)>




Everyone who responded were right. There is, however a solution. Back in the

70's the VW beetle and bus had a thing called a "manual-automatic", which was a
manual transmission with a vacuum actuated clutch. You could sit at a light
with the engine in gear, the engine vacuum kept the clutch "pushed in" for you.
Give it gas, the clutch releases. Not being sure what the required pressures
the subaru needs to push in the clutch linkage, this may not work. There are
companies that sell these kits (for the handicapped) i.e, missing their left
leg. The theory behind this is why people with a missing leg cannot own manual
transmissions. I believe their design is that of the VW. Just a thought.

 

[Brent P]

However, I have a herniated disc and have had recurring back pain for the
last year. I had no idea using the clutch (in city traffic mind you) would
exacerbate my lower back pain.

How about a different route? Say modifying the clutch linkage such that
it requires less pedal effort? Is it a hydraulic clutch 'linkage'
already? If so, you may just be able to change the return spring so
it takes less effort. If it's a cable, maybe change it to a hydraulic
system, or put in a bigger 'pulley' in the linkage. My guess is this
would take alot less fabrication and special work.

 

[Frank]

Thanks for your response to the car question (ie, explaining
about the
drivetrain and interior controls), but no thanks for assuming I
had not
sought treatment for my back pain and that YOU needed to tell
me about it.
I have done physical therapy, exercise, acupunture, massage
therapy, and
chiropractic.

Just looking for technical automative answers here, not
medical.

Relax man. He did not insult you or anything. He told you about
what you wanted to know. And you blast him. Nice, real nice.
PLONK!

 

[foxmon]

I have expreienced a similar problem with my back and standard transmission.
I've found by sitting a bit forward ie more upright, it helps ease my back
pain.

Give that a try, if that doesnt work you might want to consider trade in for
a vechicle with auto transmission. Converting the transmission just doesnt
sound practical nor economical.

 

[Kurt C. Hack]

One other technical item to note is the transfer case. I believe that
the automatic and manual use different ttransfer cases to allow slippage
of one end vs. the other, where the manual does not. So all in all you
are looking at:

1. Transmission
2. Console
3. Computer
4. Wiring Harness
5. Transfer Case
6. Miscellaneous Fabrication or Bracketry

While you might be able to get some or all of the parts from a salvage
yard, it will most likely not be cheap. Frankly, there just aren't many
Legacies at the junkyard, thus demand outstrips supply.

Then you have the labour component to consider. If you are seriously
considering this conversion and the expense involved, I wouldn't let
anyone but a Subaru mechanic handle the conversion. My reasoning for
this is that you are taking a car worth $10k and installing another
$2k-$3k worth of parts into it. Do you really want some hack possibly
screwing it up and not honoring any warranty?

Now, the logical side of the argument; only you can make this decision.
For what its worth, it would be a whole lot easier to speak to the
family member who gave you the car and explain that you like the car,
but would like to trade it for an automatic version of it. You will
never recoup the entire cost of this "upgrade" to your car. Its
currently worth about $10k, with an automatic maybe $10.5k - $11k. So
for the additional $500 - $1000 you may recoup you would be loosing the
other $1k-$2k, and that is only if you did the conversion and sold it
right away. The depreciation differences between and auto and manual
fall away the older the car gets. So three years from now you will see
no difference in resale costs.

Good luck with your decision!

-Kurt

 

[y_p_w]

Then you have the labour component to consider. If you are seriously
considering this conversion and the expense involved, I wouldn't let
anyone but a Subaru mechanic handle the conversion. My reasoning for
this is that you are taking a car worth $10k and installing another
$2k-$3k worth of parts into it. Do you really want some hack possibly
screwing it up and not honoring any warranty?

Frankly, I can't see how the thing would be warranted. If the parts
are used, the warranty wouldn't be very long. If they're new parts,
they would likely carry the replacement parts warranty, and would
be a short period. The standard US powertrain warranty is 5 years or
60K miles. Once this conversion is done, I'd think the factory
warranty on the transmission is completely done with.

Now, the logical side of the argument; only you can make this decision.
For what its worth, it would be a whole lot easier to speak to the
family member who gave you the car and explain that you like the car,
but would like to trade it for an automatic version of it. You will
never recoup the entire cost of this "upgrade" to your car. Its
currently worth about $10k, with an automatic maybe $10.5k - $11k. So
for the additional $500 - $1000 you may recoup you would be loosing the
other $1k-$2k, and that is only if you did the conversion and sold it
right away. The depreciation differences between and auto and manual
fall away the older the car gets. So three years from now you will see
no difference in resale costs.

I looked it up. A 5-sp Outback circa 2001 would be $15K (US).

 

[Threeducks]

Frankly, I can't see how the thing would be warranted. If the parts
are used, the warranty wouldn't be very long. If they're new parts,
they would likely carry the replacement parts warranty, and would
be a short period. The standard US powertrain warranty is 5 years or
60K miles. Once this conversion is done, I'd think the factory
warranty on the transmission is completely done with.



I looked it up. A 5-sp Outback circa 2001 would be $15K (US).

Christ, is this rec.autos.tech or rec.autos.resale.value?

The guy wants to know what is involved in swaping an auto tranny into a
Subaru. Instead of getting info, he gets a bunch of editorials on why
he shouldn't do it. Who cares about resale value? If I want to paint
flames on my minivan are you going to tell me how to do it, or tell me I
shouldn't do it because I'll hurt my resale value?

Now I don't know jack about Subarus, but the standard advice for this
sort of thing is do your homework first. You probably need to find some
Subaru enthusiast groups in your area or on the internet. If it's a
bolt up type operation, your best bet is to find a donor car at a junk
yard and get all the parts you need from that. If you do the work
yourself, the cost shouldn't be too outrageous. If you hire it out, it
might get ugly. As Daniel Stern mentioned, you may have to go with a
hot rod shop for this sort of thing.

 

[y_p_w]

Christ, is this rec.autos.tech or rec.autos.resale.value?

The guy wants to know what is involved in swaping an auto tranny into a
Subaru. Instead of getting info, he gets a bunch of editorials on why
he shouldn't do it. Who cares about resale value? If I want to paint
flames on my minivan are you going to tell me how to do it, or tell me I
shouldn't do it because I'll hurt my resale value?

It's not really about resale value. It's about how much is the
car worth, and would it make sense to put in over 1/3 of the
value of the car into a rather dubious modification. I can
understand why people would want to mod their cars. However,
the OP seems to want something that would resemble a factory
automatic transmission.

Now I don't know jack about Subarus, but the standard advice for this
sort of thing is do your homework first. You probably need to find some
Subaru enthusiast groups in your area or on the internet. If it's a
bolt up type operation, your best bet is to find a donor car at a junk
yard and get all the parts you need from that. If you do the work
yourself, the cost shouldn't be too outrageous. If you hire it out, it
might get ugly. As Daniel Stern mentioned, you may have to go with a
hot rod shop for this sort of thing.

First of all, the OP said he has a bad back. I doubt he's doing
it himself (even with help). Second, all current Subarus have
AWD configurations. Most who have added to this thread stated
that it's going to be a boatload of parts differences between the
manual and automatic transmissions. This is something that
shouldn't be attempted unless taken as some sort of challenge
by someone who loves working on cars. From a practical point of
view, selling this one an finding a replacement (with automatic)
will cost less and will be less likely to leave the owner stranded.

It can be done. If there are any practical considerations, this
shouldn't be done.

 

[Spinifex]

AUSTRALIA

Ha ha ha....... VERY good response Threeducks...

I dont have an answer, OR an opinion, on the logistics or practicality
of the question... however I DO agree with your response.

The poster just asked if it is POSSIBLE.... there was NOTHING in his
question about SHOULD he do it.... just COULD he do it......

I would DEARLY love to put a twin-turbo 2.5 (4-cyl) or T-T 3.0 (6cyl) in
my 2001 Liberty (Legacy) Wagon here in Australia.... impossible???
Surely not..... practical???? DEFINITELY NOT....

But GOD, what a dream

Spinifex

 

[y_p_w]

AUSTRALIA

Ha ha ha....... VERY good response Threeducks...

I dont have an answer, OR an opinion, on the logistics or practicality
of the question... however I DO agree with your response.

The poster just asked if it is POSSIBLE.... there was NOTHING in his
question about SHOULD he do it.... just COULD he do it......

Everyone (myself included) said it would be possible. Saying that it's
possible is one thing. Explaining what it would take is another. I
could ask someone if I could climb Mount Everest. However - the more
important question is what it's going to take to do that.

I would DEARLY love to put a twin-turbo 2.5 (4-cyl) or T-T 3.0 (6cyl) in
my 2001 Liberty (Legacy) Wagon here in Australia.... impossible???
Surely not..... practical???? DEFINITELY NOT....

This would be in line with attempting to swap a manual transmission
in an AWD Subaru for an automatic transmission. However - your "dream"
would result in something unique or special. People who are willing
to do these kinds of mods are willing to give up their warranties and
live with potential mechanical problems. What the original poster
really wants is cheaper, more reliable, and already exists in the form
of a used vehicle.

But GOD, what a dream

OK. I'm not sure what's available in Oz, but the new Outbacks available
in the US seem to have way more powerful engines.